The XBroker: The Mortgage Transparency Train Has Arrived

The Mortgage Transparency Train Has Arrived

The Mortgage Transparency Train Has Arrived…


Anyone who’s read my writings either here at Active Rain or on my ‘outside’ blog The XBroker over the past 18 months knows I’m a pretty opinionated guy when it comes to how traditional mortgage (and real estate industry) business works.  It’s probably safe to say that I’m an outspoken critic too, but that’s because I’m very passionate about my beliefs and convictions. Although I’ve had my share of ‘run-ins’ and probably made a few adversaries along the way (as well as many many friends), my intent has always been to spur thought and compel the industries I was deeply involved with into embracing change for the betterment of all. 


My rants typically revolve around the need for greater transparency …radical transparency…in the mortgage industry, centered around the belief that consumers and real estate agents should be afforded unabated access to wholesale direct, unmanipulated mortgage rates and their actual costs.   In my opinion, this information was too valuable to be kept in a vault or subjected to a conflicted 3rd parties idea of what they thought a consumer should see and be sold.  So I decided to do something about it…


On Monday June 14th 2008 at 2pm PST I (rather) quietly launched a website and product called RateSpeed.

The easiest way to explain this, is to ask myself some questions:


What is it? 
  An anonymous, automated, transparent, mortgage program and interest rate pricing pre-qualification Search Engine widget, thingy.
Why is this important? For the first time anyone can transparently access wholesale direct mortgage interest rates and program quotes without having to talk to a licensed mortgage professional first.  Yep, this is important to a lot of people. 


How is this possible?  RateSpeed is a completely objective, non-conflicted 3rd party piece of software, so we configure and maintain the flow of mortgage rate and price information between the consumer and the wholesale direct source to insure it’s 100% transparent.
This is the most important value proposition RateSpeed has to offer both consumers and professionals. Maintaining the integrity and purity of the information flow between the wholesale market and the consumers eyeballs open’s a clear channel where consumers can shop for a mortgage based on service and experience rather than ‘What’s my rate?’  Since you get to see exactly the same information a broker or banker does, you never have to wonder if they can really ‘do better’. 


So, you’re trying to put the mortgage professional out of business?   No, RateSpeed is a licensable piece of software that is embeddable on a qualified mortgage professionals web or blog-site. The good mortgage pro stays where they should be, firmly in the middle of the transaction to offer advice and close the loan.  We do require the mo-pro to offer a flat fee for service to the consumers who want to retain their services via their RateSpeed application.  How much this flat fee is, is completely up to the mortgage professional. 


So, you’re a lead generator?   No and Yes.  No we don’t buy or sell leads.  Yes we create leads for the mortgage professional by offering consumers the confidence of knowing the information they see is 100% transparent and deliverable from this professional, so when they are done shopping they’re buying from this professional. 


Why is this different again?   You know the drill: A consumer or real estate professional needs a rate quote they have to call or go online and ‘shop’ a bunch of mortgage professionals hoping to find the lowest rate at the lowest cost. Shopping for clothes may be fun, but shopping for a mortgage is a confusing, frustrating, inefficient, and very COSTLY process for both the consumer and mortgage professional. Neither one trusts the other to provide good information; everyone kinda looks at each other with that suspicious evil eye. 

This is where RateSpeed steps in, kind of like e-Harmony, using ‘19 dimensions of credit, property, and financial compatibility’, RateSpeed automatically matches consumers with a program, rate, price as well as a trustworthy ‘date’ to accompany them to the closing table.


Consumers: Shop as much as you like without having to talk to a person, contact the mo-pro when you see the rate and price you like and are ready to do buisness. 


Mortgage Professionals: Get shopped all day long without having to talk to every ‘tire kicker’. Spend more time helping your current clients.  The consumer who does contact you likes what they see and is ready to share some thoughts and explore a deeper relationship.  Think about it, you get really cool mortgage rate trending data, a customized rate pricing aggregator, a consumer shopping assistant, and a quality organic lead generation application all in one...smashing!


Real Estate Professionals:  Contact your mortgage professional, tell them to get on the RateSpeed program and that you want a RateSpeed thingy on your site, we can embed the application for you too with their consent.   While all the data goes back to the mortgage professional, you can represent to your potential and current clients that the mortgage rate quotes they get from RateSpeed on your site are the most accurate and transparent in the marketplace.  What’s better is that you know that any of your clients who retain your RateSpeed licensed broker or banker are going to be in good hands, which typically means less headache for you. 


What’s next?  I’m looking for 10 licensed mortgage professional beta testers from Active Rain to pioneer hosting RateSpeed on their sites, for free.  I’m not looking for just anyone, I’m looking for the mortgage professionals who can provide constructive criticism and sound suggestions, for they will have a say in new functionality features that go into future iterations of RateSpeed, and be credited with such.  I’m not 100% on exactly how to select the 10 members, and so working with Bob to come up with something cool.  There are huge early adopter advantages here ‘wink-wink’…


In closing, I know I’ve waded deep into the waters of self-promotion here but I’ve put in my time, blogging almost 500 pages of material over the last 18 months to give and gain the invaluable advice from the collective wisdom of this and other wise crowds.  The exchanges weren’t always pleasant but I learned a little something from every one of them. There was a much different plan in the beginning for RateSpeed, it was from the feedback I received in many forms from many members of Active Rain that fostered and molded what RateSpeed has ultimately come to be.  For this I’m very grateful and just too excited to share, so I’m willing to risk sounding a little too promotional.  That and I think this product/service can help change the mortgage industry for the better, for everyone.  :)

Comment balloon 155 commentsJeff Corbett • June 19 2008 08:41AM

Comments

It will be interesting to see how this works - as your personal experience shows - rates are literally different in different parts of the country - it's all risk based. For many years (for example) NC has enjoyed better PMI rates than SC - simply due to risk factors.  Accessing a wholesale rate for CA from Wells - and accessing that same wholesale rate for NC for Wells might be different IMHO.

Agree about transparancy though - and much has been written recently about our "system" versus the brokers in England (as an example).

Good Luck.

Posted by Eleanor Thorne, Equity Resources 919-649-5058 (Equity Resources) almost 11 years ago

Oooh, I just love smart, outside-the-box people.  Will be watching the comments.. and talking to my CB mortgage guy.

Posted by Susie Blackmon, Ocala, Horses, Western Wear, Horse Farms, Marketing almost 11 years ago

Hi,

    www.google.com

http://www.google.com

Posted by anita almost 11 years ago

I'm still trying to wade through Anita's comments:-)

Jeff - Looks like I have a bit of homework to do ...

Posted by Jason Sardi, Your Agent for Life (Auto & Home & Life Insurance throughout North Carolina) almost 11 years ago

form the other side of the spectrum where Anita roams. ..

well informed website with lots of content.. .congrats

Posted by Fernando Herboso - Broker for Maxus Realty Group, 301-246-0001 Serving Maryland, DC and Northern VA (Maxus Realty Group - Broker 301-246-0001) almost 11 years ago

Looks like you are keeping up with the way consumers shop these days- they want, and demand, to have all the information they need to make an informed decisions.  If we empower them with the information they need, they are likely to do business with us when they feel comfortable enough to make those decisioins.

Posted by Hope Goss, Ventura Real Estate (Ventura Property Shoppe) almost 11 years ago

Jeff, i just tried out your site.  Very interesting!! I think people would be very interested in seeing this.

Posted by Kelly McDonald almost 11 years ago

Ok, I tried your site and entered in what should have come back with at least an FHA quote and got not qualifed............ 

Posted by Joe Adams (Major Mortgage USA/Branch Manager) almost 11 years ago

So is this like a captive 'Lending Tree' on Steroids?

Posted by Rich Jacobson, Your Kitsap County WA Real Estate Broker (Fathom Realty West Sound) almost 11 years ago

I love the idea of transparency, but in my experience consumers simply don't care.  All the talk about YSP, SRP, etc just causes their eyes to glaze over and muddy's the water.  I have worked as an upfront mortgage broker since I got into this game and 9 out of 10 times all the consumer cares about is their rate.  No one cares what I am making on the loan as long as their rate is the cheapest they could find and they know I can get the job done.  I do not understand this fascination with brokers having to disclose profit to consumers.  No other business discloses their margins.  If I am making $10k on a loan and still giving my client the lowest rate they can find anywhere, why does it matter what I am making? 

One of the hardest things for folks to understand is that consumers want to be sold.  Regardless of what kind of smack they talk regarding wanting LOs to be upfront, honest, transparency, etc.  Those same consumers when faced with a mortgage professional capping YSP at $500 bucks being super transparent and Larry Lowball from Lendingtree are almost always going to go with Larry Lowball.  Human nature.

I will definitely try out the system though.  Jeff, how does your system account for volume incentives and other specials?  I know for fact my companies get better pricing than some brokers at the same wholesale bank...   I am assuming you are just pulling raw wholesale rates and not rates after SRP and not other incentives that the broker/banker may receive.

Posted by Anonymous almost 11 years ago

I'll be interested to see your success with this project.  I am fully on board with the transparency issues, as an agent, it drives me nuts to wade through some of the garbage I'm given (with a straight face).  Add on a discussion about the numbers and amounts of "junk fees" and I think you'll have a winner. 

Posted by Scott Ingalls (Nothnagle Realtors) almost 11 years ago

@Eleanor: The application is configured to pull from a mo-pro's specific lender feeds, so if they are licensed in NC and the subject property is in NC, it will only pull NC based rates and pricing. 

@Joe:  We are uploading FHA data as I type this.  Its been a long process with the new loan amount provisions being very local in nature.  You should see FHA pricing within the next week or so, depending on where you are around the country. 

@Rich: *Gasp* I'll pretend you didnt say that!!  Lending Tree grabs your personal information then decides if they're going to try and close the loan (cherry picking) or sells you as a lead to 4 (or 10 or 20) paying mortgage professionals...when banks compete you win!  Remember?  They definately do not display transparent wholesale direct pricing and their business practices leave alot to be desired (I count three lawsuits against them in the past year)...You should know me better than that.

RateSpeed runs on a mortgage professionals website using their wholesale or correspondant feeds, all info and 'leads' go directly to that mortgage professional.  I thought I laid this out in the post, guess I didn't, it was late when I hit submit...we make money via a one-time setup and montly licensing fee.  We are not a lender, broker, banker and in no way directly profit from the origination or closing of loans...that would be a conflict of interest in my book. 

@anonymous:  By disclosing what wholesale direct, transparent mortgage rates and pricing is, consumers are assured of seeing the lowest rate that mortgage professional has to offer.  Thats what they want, right?

Since RateSpeed is configured directly with your individual wholesale or correspondant lender feeds, any pricing incentives, bonuses or otherwise, will be reflective in the application.

You are correct, we dont have anything to do with SRP as that is a fee paid for processing, underwriting, funding, packaging, and selling the loan into the secondary market. 

YSP is an option for consumer to finance some or all of their closing costs for accepting a rate higher than they would otherwise qualify for....this is why the mortgage industry must/should disclose their margins.

 

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Site looks good Jeff.  Wish you well . . . always like to see progressive thinking.  Will forward this to my preferred lender and let him take a look . . .

Posted by Trent Cluley almost 11 years ago

Great idea! Bookmarked!

Posted by Carrie Perez, MBA almost 11 years ago

so very interesting.  You have my attention.  Keep us informed on progress please.

Posted by Elena Thurston, Family Real Estate Specialist (Keller Williams Legacy One) almost 11 years ago

Amazing! I really like the design of your sight. I went and did some entries and it is very easy to use. I will be watching to see who is going to be your "10" - If I was in mortgage I sure would want in!!

Posted by Jo Olson, HOMEFRONT Realty @ LAKE Roosevelt - Stevens County (HOMEFRONT Realty) almost 11 years ago

I tried some test numbers and put in 800 ficos w2 90% and plenty of assets....says im not qualified???

Posted by Justin Williams, Loan Officer (Independent) almost 11 years ago

@Justin: Did you hit 'Email my rates', 'I'm Interested' or a 'Buy Now' button?  Is the DTI really high or some other factor that may be kicking out your situation.  In the alternative please email me the submission criteria you used to jeff@thexbroker.com and I will give you a proper response, otherwise its hard to address your issue. Thx!

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

X...Y here :)

I likes it ... "The Brianchild or Jeff Corbett" ... Nice :)

I know there are folks that don't think The Consumer cares. But many of them do. Once they find out they've been screwed they do lean towards caring. Having made my fair share of investments involving Mortgages I can address this topic knowing full well how pissed off I was when I found out that a trusted lender failed to disclose fees. Fees that I should have been told about. If a Lender will do that to someone who owns a Real Estate Company...Who else will they do that too? 

P.S. Shhhh...I so did not just say something that serious on AR :)

TLW...ROAR!

Posted by "The Lovely Wife" (Broker Bryantnulls Wife) The One And Only TLW. (President-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.) almost 11 years ago

Jeff - I was hoping that you would know I was only joking!....

Posted by Rich Jacobson, Your Kitsap County WA Real Estate Broker (Fathom Realty West Sound) almost 11 years ago

Sounds great but does your site take into consideration all of the risk based pricing based on credit score, etc..... If not the raw info to the consumer is meaningless. I have been in the mortgage business for over 20 years and I love your idea but the bottom line is that the majority of the public just does not care.  They want TRUST, especially in today's market. As the thieves continue to get out of the business the honesty in the market will correct it self.

Posted by Rick almost 11 years ago

I would be more than pleased to Beta test your program. One of the most difficult parts of my profession is trying to drum up business during the day AND have the ability to quote rates, even to the people doing new construction that are 1-3-5 months out! Let me know how i can become involved, I ALWAYS look for systems that can help automate my work, because with how I do business, the RELATIONSHIP is established when they begin so the rate shoppers fall off at that time (if they are going to).

Ron Beebe, PA

www.ronbeebe.com

Posted by Ron Beebe almost 11 years ago

Have you noticed all of the positive feedback you are receiving from real estate agents and all the negative protection based comments you are getting from mortgage professionals.  Everyone is afraid to say how much they make and no agent wants you to get paid more than them, that is after all why they care about the rates and fees.  I think your transparency ideas take some guts and would add some trust back to a business that is sorely in need of trust.  Without 100% compliance the playing field may not be level for some and maybe that is the point.  I would be very interested to give this a whirl and get some client feedback both from real estate professionals and actual consumers.

Posted by Tom - Mortgages Unlimited almost 11 years ago

Tried using your website. Didn't give me any pricing. Most of my clients use my services because I'm a professional. I've been originating mortgage loans since 1980. My clients don't nickle and dime me. I'll refer the nickle and dimers to mortgage brokers who don't value their service. I would rather do less volume and average more per loan for my efforts. I will not use lenders who "buy the market" and then take 2 months to close a loan when I have 30 days in which to close. Realtors don't care what lender I choose just as long as I get the loan closed in 30 days. You are trying to put too much control into the hands of the consumer. The mortgage professional should be the one in control. Too many things can go wrong in a mortgage transaction. This market demands that mortgage professionals stay on top of all the market changes. I expect to get paid for my professionalism and experience. Let the nickle and dimers go to the mortgage people who don't value their time. Many of these "discounters" have already gone out of business. I'm in business to make a profit! Have you ever originated, processed and closed a loan yourself? If you have then you know what it takes to do this job. If you haven't then we should talk. e          

Posted by Mike almost 11 years ago

I am also passionate about what I do.  Although your idea seems like a great one, I have an issue or 2.  Firstly why do you feel the need to make all brokers a commodity.  When I go to the supermarket I will buy the lowest priced fruit etc...  If I offer services that are unique, I expect to be paid for them.  I have always explained how I get paid to my customers.  I also show them how to read a GFE so that they can determine weather or not I am getting paid what we agreed to in the start of the transaction.  The point is this whole time I had the ability to converse with my client and be transparent while building rapport.  You however are taking this very important tool away.  Moreover you are adding to the media hype regarding brokers.  This happens because the playing field is not level.  With a 1 million dollar line and a printer I can make sure that my clients never have to have the ysp revealed to them.  Moreover call me BofA or Wamu etc.. and I really don't have to show them how much I made.  Now if they really saw raw pricing at the base level and then saw how much margin say a bank makes over the raw, they would fall over.  The bottom line is I make 1 point per deal.  Every deal.  Sometimes the bank pays and sometimes the client and sometimes both.  However my clients can always see the point.  I know this is different and has cost me some money over time.  My only question is why shoud we be so quick to throw it up on the net without our home loan bretheren from the institutions having to do the same.

Posted by John Severino (Nuline Funding, Inc.) almost 11 years ago

Well, this should certainly be interesting to watch.  I enjoyed your informative post.

Posted by Diane Bell, Hilton Head Real Estate, Bluffton (Charter 1 Real Estate, Hilton Head, Bluffton, SC) almost 11 years ago

looks very interesting. I need to investigate it further.

Posted by Rob Proctor, GRI ePro (At Home Real Estate Company) almost 11 years ago

Jeff-

 As a mortgage - banker- owner-loan officer I canonly tell that current market conditons are terrible. I had little success with traditonal brokers business.  currently my bank is bucking the trend and i am able to close anyone- i mean anyone. we don't use credit scores- lates are ok and even recent bk's and foreclosures. the reason is pure GREED , I make no qualms about it. the owners have gnmae certificate and use their money to underwrite, close and service trash clients. I don't mean anything derogatory but a recent purchase 97.75% with a 448 ficos and a foreclosure in '07 CLOSED and FUNDED at 7.25% FHA 30 yr loan.

 I ma very luck to have such capabilities and anyone who needs to close a difficult loan pleae feel free to contact me, including you JEFF

Posted by Matthew Giegerich almost 11 years ago

JEFF,

What makes this pricing engine any different or better than the rest? 

What is going to be the cost?

Are there any additional features that you plan to offer?

 

Posted by James Mucci (Orion Lending) almost 11 years ago

@ TLW:  Why thx you :-)

@Rick: Yes, the application is configured right into the mortgage pros wholesale lender feeds and reflects all aspects of risk based pricing. 

@ Ron and @Tom, please contact me via jeff@thexbroker.com, would love learn more about you guys. 

@ Mike:  Sounds like you've got it figured out.  RateSpeed definitely isnt for eveyone and can appreciate your opinion, though I may not agree with it.  I owned a mortgage brokerage for 7 years, when I started getting real transparent and showed consumers how this industry worked, I never had to 'sell' a loan again. Not sure why you didnt get any pricing, the only reason you wouldnt would be because LTV was too high, credit score too low, DTI too high or any number of other risk based factors.  In any case the engine is hooked to ~30 wholesale direct feeds and doesn't fudge results...I imagine they are some of the same lenders you currently use. 

 

@Symphony:  I dont make brokers a commodity, the mortgage backed security market and RESPA does.  You should definitely be paid, the application allows you to set your price right up front.  The application also runs on your site using your wholesalers or correspondants data feeds, you stay in the middle of the transaction, consumers definately need an experienced well heeled mortgage professional and those are the only type I'm interested in allowing to license the application. 

Great point about bankers and retailers not having to disclose YSP etc.  When a broker runs a transparent application like this they can effectively demonstrate to consumers that bankers MAY NOT be acting transparently and bring this to light.  While 'they' don't have to disclose YSP, in a transparent marketplace consumers will see this quite evidently.  Brokers have the most to gain here since they have the ability to offer more choice and they may use transparency to their succinct advantage instead of being hindered by it. 

 

Great comments and feedback!  Many Thx!!

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Oh, and FHA pricing is being updated into the system daily...coming to your neck of the woods soon!

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

X, This stuff is way over my head but it sounds very interesting. I am going to spend some time digesting this content and the comments and will be back with my thoughts once I find them:) 

Good to see ya my friend.

Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) almost 11 years ago

You state something that makes no sense to me, "Great point about bankers and retailers not having to disclose YSP etc. When a broker runs a transparent application like this they can effectively demonstrate to consumers that bankers MAY NOT be acting transparently and bring this to light. While 'they' don't have to disclose YSP, in a transparent marketplace consumers will see this quite evidently. Brokers have the most to gain here since they have the ability to offer more choice and they may use transparency to their succinct advantage instead of being hindered by it."

OK, if that is true...how do you explain that it is the bank that is giving them the mortgage anyway. You know the one that you just stated.

It is not like brokers make their own loans, NO, they have to go get them from the bank. The same banks you state are not transparent. So the consumer ends up there anyway.

Since you state you are broker friendly, if I read into this correctly, how about coming up with a tool that NOW discloses what the banks are making ON TOP of what a broker makes OR if I am competing with a bank and they offer me a wholesale rate of 6% and I make 1% YSP and the bank retail offers 5.875%....how much is that bank REALLY making? NOW THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

I definitely believe in upfront disclosure and I practice it ... AND I think All brokers SHOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH any widget/entity that endorses even more scrutinty to the mortgage broker industry.

If you look into the 'mortgage bubble', YSP was not the problem. The problem was Wall Street buying everything thrown at them, the banks underwrote ALL the mortgages, they saw what they were doing...now we have people saying we charge too much? Most of idiots that charged too much are the same ones that are out of business now.

It is the banks that rape consumers, hand over fist...we are just small business people.

This type of product is barking up the wrong tree.

Posted by Stephanie almost 11 years ago

Transparency is cool.  But when shopping for a loan the things that matter wouldn't change.

The loan should be selected not on transparency, but on rate, upfornt fees and backend penaltiesl

As a consumer "the most accurate and transparent in the marketplace" is interesting, but lowest rate and upfront fees will trump the concept everytime.

 

 

 

Posted by Edward Balcsik (Law Office of Edward Balcsik) almost 11 years ago

Wow.... you REALLY went over to the dark side!!!

You generate leads for mortgage pros now. <= that was VERY transparent.

Great.... we really needed another one. :-\

 

Posted by Tom Burris, Texas/Louisiana Mortgage Pro - 13 YRS Experience (NMLS# 335055) almost 11 years ago

I like the concept. Saw a comment earlier about making 1 point on every deal and proud of it! Must be nice. I think this has the potential to take off! Even if the borrowers don't use a Ratespeed loan they will use the system to check the rate they are getting to keep their lender/broker honest. 

 I could see a flat fee of $995 to $1,295 depending on # of borrowers, is it a first and second etc..... So the borrower can see OK I can get 6.00 with 1 point rebate, pay the broker his $995 and use the rest for closing costs.

Interesting to hear the realtor that is happy to be removed from the mortgage referral process, seem contrary to current practice. I wonder if that is becoming a trend?

Would like to participate in this process in some manner.

 

Posted by Peter Weiss almost 11 years ago

@Stephanie:

"how do you explain that it is the bank that is giving them the mortgage anyway. You know the one that you just stated."

As a broker, I would tell them that I'm approved with many banks and its my job to find them the best deal from these banks (which is what this application does).  If you go to a retail bank, they can only offer their products, while as I broker I can offer you many banks products and help you choose the best one...this is Broker Benefits 101

"if I am competing with a bank and they offer me a wholesale rate of 6% and I make 1% YSP and the bank retail offers 5.875%" 

If the bank offers you 6% with 1% YSP, whats the rate they offer minus the 1% YSP?  Probably well below 5.875%

When you turn wholesale/correspondant pricing front facing, 100% transparent, it doesn't matter if you're a broker or a banker...everyone dips from the same pool. 

If a banker wants to offer 6% and $X amount in fees and the mortgage professional running an application like this is showing their wholesale, correspondant direct pricing feeds displays 5.75% and $X in fees, it really doesnt matter if the banker discloses YSP becasue this application does.  Its the ultimate tool to make sure a consumer is getting quoted exactly what they qualify for. 

Today, the banker may not have to disclose, but not doing so will soon be considered disingenuous once greater awareness permeates the market.

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

@edward:

"As a consumer "the most accurate and transparent in the marketplace" is interesting, but lowest rate and upfront fees will trump the concept everytime."

Perhaps you should go run a loan scenario on the application, it displays the 'lowest rate and upfront fees', thats what it does. 

 

@Tom:  Someone needed to do it...

 

@Peter: glad to have you!

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

What a great way to educate the consumer to make the best decision for their situation; An added feature (and tremendous for me) would be when the software had to notify the prospective client that  they did not qualify due to their credit score, the software seamlessly informed them of the number of reputable, Active Rain, service providers available and at their disposal to restore their credit and raise their credit score so they qualify; or to raise their score to avoid the added fees they encounter because their score is between 620 - 719!!!

I'm pretty sure those of us AR's in the credit restoration/financial services corner would be more than happy to Beta Test when ready.

Posted by Dee Hoffman almost 11 years ago

Times change, the market changes and the mortgage industry is changing.  I think it is great that you are offering another option for consumers.

I got my mortgage broker license a few years back thinking it would be nice to be able to offer additional services for some of my investor clients and more my personal knowledge.  I have a new respect for mortgage brokers.  I realized that real estate is my thing and I am leaving the mortgage business for the mortgage brokers.

I do think that people really don't have a clue how complicated pricing is depending on the situation.  I think if it was more transparent people would see how many different factors and adjustments really go into pricing a loan.  I say go for it!  It may not appeal to all but I think your intentions are good and wish you the best of luck.

Posted by Ian Anderson, Greater Daytona Beach Area Luxury Home Specialist (Keller Williams Realty Florida Partners) almost 11 years ago

Transparency has been a word used much more often than in latter days... the truth is that most good, ethical brokers have always been transparent. Take for example the broker that complies with full disclosure, shows the borrower his/or her fees, discusses the option of paying part of the broker fees or closing cost through YSP and illustrates to the client the cost of each option. Transparency is a word used to dilute the profession as previously acting with little regard to the client..this is media and legislative hype. As a rule of thumb...if the professional is afraid to sit with their borrower, show them rate sheets while discuss different pricing levels, and provide lock within 3 days with terms..well they won't be around to much longer anyway.

Further..may receive some angry comments here, while I have fiduciary duty to the consumer, however, I do not with the Realtor. I have an obligation to meet and exceed the reasonable expectations of a Realtor partner but there is no duty to provide to them what my capacity to earn is. My obligation to provide affordable financing with the best terms in line with the clients and an expectation that the client can meet the obligation does not extend beyond the consumer.  I do not purport to know the full level of service a Realtor provides, and thusly respect them for what they do. They are trained professionals providing a valuable service. I do not discuss their capacity to earn as this is something between them and their client; I feel the same should be afforded a good mortgage professional. Do you think XYZ Bank will disclose to either...let alone the Realtor??? And please remember... current industry problems were contributed to from all venues..Investors, mortgage lending, origination, appraiser, Realtors and even consumers...with that said...... we do need level, standardized disclosure, and we need to separate ourselves from the rest of the pack.

I like the idea Jeff and understand what you are trying to acheive, but what will your widget do any differently than what is already coming down the pipe now?? Is this mainly a tool to be transparent on your website??  

Posted by Marc Richie almost 11 years ago

lol...   Jeff C., not laughing at you.  Laughing at some of the comments. When it comes to this kind of feedback, I am usually not like a politician, to where I will give answers that people will want to hear. I shoot straight from the hip.

I'll start with this comment by Peter Weiss...   "I could see a flat fee of $995 to $1,295 depending on # of borrowers, is it a first and second etc..... So the borrower can see OK I can get 6.00 with 1 point rebate, pay the broker his $995 and use the rest for closing costs."

@ Peter.... do you understand what it costs to process a deal from start to finish?  A flat fee of $1,295?  Is this your fee, the companies fee?  Is this your split after or before?  You can't survive on a fee like that.

Let me try to explain something to many of you that don't know the back end of any mortgage operation. If you are a broker, your costs are limited. If you are a banker that underwrites, closes & funds the loan, there is a larger cost to do this.... and a lot more risk.  A lot more....   There is no guarantee that my investors buy the loans from us once we sell them the loan. And this is like 10 days after the loan closes.

Secondly...  a flat fee... transparency.  Is this including commitment fees?  Not including them?

 

I think that this was the best comment out there....  06/19/2008 03:15 PM It's right on the money.  First off, a system like this won't take off, especially in today's market. You would cut out the service aspect of things.   I had two people come to me on Friday, both needing a closing on the 27th of June. Both FHA manual underwrites. I don't care what anyone says, but you can't do these types of loans for a flat fee. I have to kill myself to get them to close on time.  I could be here forever on this.

Overall, @ Jeff C.  Mike... He has been on the other side. He was in the mortgage business.  I have found those that are great at their job, stay in the mortgage business.  The whole transparency cries are just that...  trying to divert the consumer to a new platform, that is not fool proof. You talk about transparency. How about a dislaimer on your site, telling people what you are charging the lenders?  A web site like this is great for that loan officer or lender that is not busy.  Who truly doesn't understand how mortgages work and is an order taker. I love people that are go getters, such as yourself. But trying to sell something like this, and cry transparency?  A client should be worried about their payment and not their rate.  You are giving the consumer good reason to focus on rate and costs, when the loan officer should be asking the right questions when it comes to educating them... about what they can afford and not what deal they can get.

In ending.... this type of system might be good for that A++ client that has credit scores over 720 and needs to close in 20 days. In regards to everything one else, service would be lost for the most part?  If I am a great lawyer and get you out of jail, do you think I am going to charge a flat fee?  A cheap fee?  Do you think a specialist should do the same?  If they are great with brain surgery, do you want them to bid with a flat fee? I would not dare go that route... I would pay for my health. You will get loan officers that will botch more loans this way.  Just look at lending tree.  They say everyone is bidding for their loans.  A lot more loans don't make it to closing on time when they go through lending tree and the same will happen with this. Yes, it's a lead generator, no matter how you look at it. And many of the mortgage companies that are out of the business now, were only around because of the lead generators. Just my .02, but I would bet the very good loan officer with over 8 years of experience in this business will agree with my statements.  Most that will try your system out, will fit in the other category. ... and this is from my experience.  The tough loans will be botched and pricing will not exsist then.... it would be irrelevant at that point. How will you control a loan that the rate lock expires... then what? What about those loans that are difficult?  Do you think loan officers would then just cherry pick?

Yea, I would do 80% LTVs with 800 credit scores all day for $1,500.  All I would need is a pay stub, a w-2, and some bank statements. I wouldn't have to babysit the file.

jeff belonger

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) almost 11 years ago

Jeff, you definitely did not come close to answering my statement.

"Since you state you are broker friendly, if I read into this correctly, how about coming up with a tool that NOW discloses what the banks are making ON TOP of what a broker makes OR if I am competing with a bank and they offer me a wholesale rate of 6% and I make 1% YSP and the bank retail offers 5.875%....how much is that bank REALLY making? NOW THAT IS THE PROBLEM!"

Your metaphor for pricing as a correspondant ASSumes we all have the ability to have correspondand pricing...I am saying that, real clearly, most brokers don't.

What tool do you have to show consumers how many thousannds of dollars the banks are making...why are you choosing to only focusing on the brokers?

I know, because the banks are too smart to allow you to disclose how much they make and they would run you or anybody trying to do that out of town.

So, once again, "Since you state you are broker friendly, if I read into this correctly, how about coming up with a tool that will NOW disclose what the banks are making ON TOP of what they pay a broker.

If I, as a mortgage broker, am competing with a bank and they offer me a wholesale rate of 6% and I make 1% YSP and the bank retail offers 5.875%....how much is that bank REALLY making? NOW THAT IS THE PROBLEM!"

Please specifically answer that, thanks

Posted by Stephanie almost 11 years ago

Verrrry Interrrestingg.  Jeff, hope this works for you, I tried a few moments ago will watch for followup.

Posted by Gary Smith (Agent Marketing Today) almost 11 years ago

Stephanie, the anonymous posters here are the ASSumers here

all of these people looking for the cheapest mortgage will find this 'tool' and get screwed by the bait and switchers who buy these leads. a few will negotiate a good deal..... most will not get the rate quoted by the lead generator.

does anyone think that a loan officer can offer 1% origination at par rate less the "xbroker the lead seller" fees and make money? pffft.... the good lenders will go to closing on time and the sucker brokers will make their name worse than it already is by jacked up fees and rates at late closings.

(note: there are good brokers out there.... but they wont buy this)

Tom Burris - The DallasLoanGuy (who wont do a deal for 1% for anyone)

 

 

Posted by Tom Burris, Texas/Louisiana Mortgage Pro - 13 YRS Experience (NMLS# 335055) almost 11 years ago

i just tried the 'tool'

no mortgages for me.... i must not know how to prequal myself

 

Posted by Tom Burris, Texas/Louisiana Mortgage Pro - 13 YRS Experience (NMLS# 335055) almost 11 years ago

And how can you launch a tool that is not 100% complete...  as stated, someone tried to do a FHA quote and it didn't work.

 

Something else to ponder. .. I'll be back on another issue...

 

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) almost 11 years ago

Jeff.... did you get an email thanking you for your application?

 

Posted by Tom Burris, Texas/Louisiana Mortgage Pro - 13 YRS Experience (NMLS# 335055) almost 11 years ago

Whoa, nice.  I was wondering when things would go hostile :)

@marc: this is right in the Wheelhouse

"I have an obligation to meet and exceed the reasonable expectations of a Realtor partner but there is no duty to provide to them what my capacity to earn is."

But last time I looked at a HUD-1, I knew exactly how much the real estate professional made on the transaction...6% (or whatever) may be exhorbitant but I knew exactly how much they made and the client agreed to it in writing long before the closing.

@Jeff B.  Nice to see you. You make compelling arguments.

"A client should be worried about their payment and not their rate.  You are giving the consumer good reason to focus on rate and costs, when the loan officer should be asking the right questions when it comes to educating them... about what they can afford and not what deal they can get."

Actually this application allows a client to focus on payment, rate and price.  Consumers will always focus on rates and cost so why not just put it out there and compete on answering 'the right questions when it comes to educating them'?

'this type of system might be good for that A++ client that has credit scores over 720 and needs to close in 20 days.'

Correct, would you like some?

You can still charge whatever you want, $2, $2000, $5000, $20000...you just have to put it out there up front.

In regards to the rest, I'm not the omnipotent mortgage solver...there will always be issues, wrinkles, tough loans, rates expire etc etc...So let me speak in words that you will understand:  RateSpeed is a consumer facing pre-qual underwriting engine, much like you use on the backend of your LOS or other system, except it aggregates and searches all your pricing feeds automatically instead of making you price out shopping (or buying) clients against 2, 4, or 10 lenders manually. You drop it on your site, set how much you need to make on each loan, and it allows clients to shop rates, payment and pricing that you can deliver on.  They are your feeds, the same ratesheets you get every day from your lenders.  Shoppers contact you when they are ready to become buyers and then you can woo them with your knowledge and lead them gently into the good night...

for the 3rd time... we are uploading FHA data over the next week to 10 days, it alot of hyperlocal data.  We're 3 days old.  You'll see significant functionality updates as early as next week, including: Separate Asset fields for checking/savings, Stocks/bonds/401(k) and IRA/retirement.  There will also be program choices (40-30-20 etc Yr Fixed, 10-7-5-3 Yr ARM, interest only) for the consumer to select up to 4 at one time to be priced.

Come on back when your done pondering...

Funny thing is Jeff, that you would probably do really well with this. 

@stephanie: I guess you raising your voice at me :)

"If I, as a mortgage broker, am competing with a bank and they offer me a wholesale rate of 6% and I make 1% YSP and the bank retail offers 5.875%....how much is that bank REALLY making? NOW THAT IS THE PROBLEM!"

I don't know, but I do know that your rate of 6% with 1% YSP isn't going to beat out the bank.  I do know that if you showed a consumer how much YSP 5.875% was paying and told that consumer you needed to make a resonable fee, they would become your client and not the banks. I think your eye and ire are on the wrong ball. 

@Tom: Jeeze man, I dont sell leads...but aparently I push your buttons..?

I understand this application probably makes alot of mortgage professionals nervous and/or angry, change is never comfortable.  RateSpeed certainly is not for everyone, wasn't meant to be, but it is for some, and it is for the consumer...of which we all are at some point.

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Jeff, I've been following this development on your blog. Like Zillow mortgage this is a good attempt at changing the way the industry works. It  is an interesting idea, but my experience in this market is that those who know what they are doing and provide a high level of service are surviving, and those who don't know how to structure the tougher deals are going to be in trouble. This concept is great for the best borrowers but they are the ones with the most options anyway. In a competitive market they will get the best pricing automatically. I believe in transparency, in theory, and i do disclose fully. But I don't price all loans alike. Tougher loans take more time and effort, and they should cost more.

The other issue i see is fitting people into the right boxes. The guidelines are constantly changing and when the prospect fills in the numbers they tend to be optimistic. I can see people getting an answer from the engine and then being upset that your quote is different once you get down to the real facts. Also, transparency is a great concept, but this doesn't stop anyone from claiming transparency and quoting low rates, but still doing the bait and switch. The widget is a nice try, but it still comes down to the experience and integrity of the loan officer.

Posted by Peter Thompson, Chicago Mortgage Insight almost 11 years ago

Not nervous..... Just curious about how more confused the client will be after prequaling themselves.

Will be a fun toy for 1%..... the rest will feel more disenfranchised and they will think the industry is less transparent than before.

Many have come and explained the big ysp secret to the consumer. And many have failed.

 

Posted by Tom Burris, Texas/Louisiana Mortgage Pro - 13 YRS Experience (NMLS# 335055) almost 11 years ago

Geeeezz, you guys don't know very much about banks and or the secondary market.  Have you ever sold mortgage pools to Wallstreet?  I don't think you have the guts to do it for long, not many do.  Can you hedge your billion dollar pipeline to cover the billions of dollars of locked loans out there and oh yeah the market crashed but you still have to honor your locks to the consumer.  The banks get hosed when the market is in a down trend.  Millions and millions lost over night.  Say you were smart and you did hedge your pipeline to protect you against the downturn,  but wait the market is going the other way and rates are improving!  Yeah, finally inspite of the hedging cost you shelled out, you'll finally, maybe, break even, but no, the market improved......... so all the locks you had out there in the pipeline that were good enough at the time aren't good enough now because, well...... the market improved and Joe consumer can pull his loan with ABC and go to CBA and get a better rate. Seeeee ya! So you paid all those hedge costs to protect you so you can protect the consumer and your loans ran away  Where is the level playing field?

I worked for lenders and banks for over 20 years, I've been on both sides.  There are crooked brokers, crooked agents, crooked people every where you go.  Could the industry use some regulation, education requirements, a code of ethics, you bet.  There are publised rates all over the place.  The bank that pays extra to the broker above the quoted rate because...................he sends a lot of business, so it's volume based? Does that broker give the same credit or benefit to the consumer?  (kickback?)  Maybe he has good loan quality, high ficos etc?  His loans don't go bad historically?   Uhmmm, reverse discrimination?   Anyway good luck Jeff, I hope it works the way you think it will.  In the end, be happy with the house you just bought and make sure you can afford the payment through good and bad times and hope you don't get hit by a car cause that bank now has a bad loan.

Posted by Robyn Guinn, Home staging, Arizona (StageAZ) almost 11 years ago

@Peter:  All good points.  I'll answer by stating that the widget:

Allows mortgage professionals to change their flat fee based on a number of different factors, property type and loan amount included. 

As guidelines change on the whoesale end, they are reflected in the application immediately. 

I've found that people do not get upset when they are shown why their loan may have priced for the worse, like lower credit scores, higher DTI's than represented, and can otherwise have the situation logically explained to them instead of 'wooops, we thought your appraisal would come in higher'...

Cannot bait and switch borrowers... as a matter of fact Ive had a few borrowers contact me, one specifically, and tell me that loan originators were quoting them significantly lower than this widget.  When I looked at his scenario and explained that RateSpeed was quoting a higher rate and pricing because the LTV was above 90%.  He went back to his loan originator who said not to worry, they could 'get around it'. 

This may not stop anyone from claiming transparency but it sets an awfully high benchmark to compare it too.

An originator who subscribes to an application like this speaks to experience and integrity, but thats my humble opinion. 

 

@Tom: I guess we'll see.

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Its interesting, definitely out of the box, which I always love, although I don't totally understand it.  I am sending this to my loan officer to get his view.  Thanks

Posted by Susan Zanzonico, Sellers/Buyers Agent, Morristown NJ Real Estate (Berkshire Hathaway Home Services) almost 11 years ago

I'm probably inviting new arrows to be unleashed from the quivers by putting this out there, but what the heck:

I've talked to many inter industry practicing mortgage professionals, including respected names like Dan Green and Brian Brady, and everyone of them has confirmed that the rates and pricing RateSpeed is redisplaying are straight up wholesale/correspondant...same rates and pricing they see. 

In the end thats what's most important to me, and to consumers...

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

When it comes to selecting a mortgage person, you need to ask one of your trusted advisors to refer you to someone who is a known quantity.  Nothing substitutes for that.

I'm not for any tool that encourages people to look on the Internet for loans.  If loan brokers can't get business from their sphere of influence, they shouldn't be in the business.

I am a mortgage broker and I show my borrowers a total cost analysis which includes 1 pt and no point loan on one or more products and let them decide.  I explain that they can pay me or the lending company can pay me.  Most people opt for no point.

With some lenders, they don't pay a YSP so it doesn't matter, borrower must pay a point. 

I disclose how much I'm making on the Good Faith Est.   The fact that bankers don't have to disclose gives them an unfair advantage. 

Use someone you know and trust, or get referred to a pro by a pro and check them out.  Ask how much they're making and if you don't like the answer to any question you ask, keep looking!

Posted by Wow, this is a hot topic! almost 11 years ago

I was not 'yelling', you did not answer my question...I feel some of your responses dance but don't address the problems people may have with this idea.

Yeah, who is nervous?

My problem is not that you think you are changing anything.

The REAL problem, that is 100% documentable, is the mortgage industry experienced unscrupulous and greedy entry to the industry from short sighted Wall Street executives, bankers, brokers, realtors, appraisers and homeowners.

That is 100% documentable. The problem your widget addresses, affects maybe, what 5% (at best) of the mortgage problem? A lot of the loans given should JUST NOT HAVE OCCURED.

There are core fundamental problems in the WHOLE mortgage industry.

Brokers are the smallest part

So unless your widget changes short sighted Wall Street executives, bankers, brokers, realtors, appraisers and homeowners, all you are really doing with a product like this, is put a tie on a monkey.

FYI to all reading...did anyone notice that when the lenders tightened up and became accountable again...did anyone notice there are FAR FEWER problems going forward. The cream rises to the top and the crappy brokers are leaving or gone already!

Jeff you seem very smart and am baffled that you cannot see this and focused on such a small problem vs. spending your time REALLY helping out.

 

Posted by Stephanie almost 11 years ago

We have nothing to fear by embracing transparent mortgage products like Ratespeed and Zillow Mortgage Marketplace.  In fact, Ratespeed may define our role better and strengthen our margins rather than shrinking them.  Here's why:

1- There are predatory consumers out there; you mortgage pros know what I mean.  Consumers double app, lock with one as a "safety" and proceed with two applications.  Ratespeed could very well be the tool we need to gain commitment from a borrower in the form of an upfront deposit.  A consumer's knowledge that he is getting a pre-negotiated fee can remove the doubt from the process.

2- This could be a tremendous tool for mortgage brokers to compete against banks. Banks refuse to disclose their profits on a loan transaction A mortgage broker who establishes a fiduciary relationship with a consumer, for a pre-negotiated fee, acts in the client's best interest,  This could be used as a unique selling proposition.

3- This transfers all of the risk-based pricing and MBS volatility risk to the consumer.  No longer will mortgage brokers be required to "eat" losses due to a borrower's lacksadasical attitude (that results in a missed lock) or changing guidelines; the fee will be set.

Ethical mortgage brokers have ALWAYS been transparent.  That is evident in our initial Good Faith Estimate Disclosures.  Opaque brokers intentionally misrepresent those disclosures.

The only issue I had, some 18 months ago was diffused before the first sip of beer.  At dinner, I asked Jeff if he was trying to "fix my fee".  When he answered that he didn't care what the hell I charged, as long as I disclosed it upfront, the conversation turned to how I might maximize my profits using Rateseed (including some nifty ideas about how to reduce marketing costs).

We need not fear price disclosure if what we offer is true value.

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) almost 11 years ago

Upfront deposit, who are you kidding?  Why would I pay a deposit and lock myself into a broker, bank or anyone?  Many have tried doing that, it doesn't work.  That's the original bait and switch.  Pay a deposit, but you lose it if you don't close with me.

You guys just don't get it, you think banks should disclose how much they are making?  After all of the cost and with the YSP they pay to the brokers I guarantee it's next to nothing!  Banks are praying to break even in any market on the mortgage end.  Most are happy to put the servicing on the books for a break even, they make their money over the long term, with people making the payments and servicing the loans.  Ever looked at a GFE?  Compete with the banks?  Who do you think buys all of these loans out there no matter who originated it?  Notice who is left standing in this shake out, it's the guys with the deep pockets, they are the only ones that can afford to.  Your competition is buying your loans in the end.

It reminds me why I got out of the business, I was a wholesale rep for a bank for over 15 years and worked with hundreds of mortgage brokers out there.  Most are o.k, do a good job for their client, charge a decent fee. They are the ones that have been in business for a very long time and rode out the enevitable cycles.  They definately earn their money.  Then there is the "other guy", but they are everywhere and every industry. I cut many of them off during my career.  

Read your GFE, understand it, ask questions, and make sure it's the same one that is povided at the closing table.  Check the numbers, line by line.  Instead of a moving target website, we should be offering classes on what all this gobblety gook means. What is TIL, GFE, YSP, FNMA, FHLMC, GNMA, HUD, SRP, RESPA, on and on.  That's what the public needs. EDUCATION, and throw in one on budgeting too!   Sorry, I get wound up when people can't think BIG. 

Posted by Robyn Guinn, Home staging, Arizona (StageAZ) almost 11 years ago

How much exactly is the one-tie setup fee and the monthly licensing fee for mortgage professionals?

Posted by Jim almost 11 years ago

The beauty of this 'tool' is that the liability falls on the unsuspecting subscriber loan officers.

Bankrate used to put up lender's low rates that 90% of the people couldn't get.... and it cost them millions in legal fees.

 

Posted by Tom Burris, Texas/Louisiana Mortgage Pro - 13 YRS Experience (NMLS# 335055) almost 11 years ago

I put in to your system loan parameters that would get a perfect loan program.  It came back with 2 points as a fee.  That is not going to happeni in most markets.  Just another gimmick

Posted by dale almost 11 years ago

21:14] meeboguest73301: Wow, you are a douche. I saw your comments about Jeff Corbet's Ratespeed product and as a person looking for a mortgage right now, I would never do business with a shaddy and unethical broker like yourself. You are just jealous you didn't think about this idea. Honesty in lending is the way to go and you obviously would rather screw over your client. Congrats on that.
[21:15] meeboguest73301: Oh and by the way, I live in Dallas and was thinking about doing business with you. Not now....

 

transparency.... via anonymous post to my chat applet

btw, i am extremely upfront with my clients about ysp....

this 'tool' creates more distrust than it cures

 

 

Posted by Tom Burris, Texas/Louisiana Mortgage Pro - 13 YRS Experience (NMLS# 335055) almost 11 years ago

Certainly SOUNDS like a great idea, I hope it works for you to get the customers you want.  I like the up front approach, I think it is a much more honest approach, and only see a few use it, hope more continue to go this route!

Signature

Posted by Ronald Gillis, CNSA Southwest Florida. Notaries, Port Charlotte, 941-7-NOTARY (Southwest Florida Notaries (Mortgage Notary Signing Agent)) almost 11 years ago

@dale: whats a perfect loan program?  and I've yet to see a scenario where 2 points in YSP was even available..which leads me to believe you didn't really try it.  Please outline the loan parameters you used and I'll put the results up right up here.  

@Tom: Everyone talks about being upfront but only a few walk it.  I find that when you speak out as defiantly against a product or service that puports to bring more transparency to a market, you're really cramming your foot in your mouth by saying you'd rather not disclose.  Sorry you're receiving weird chat messages. This is far from Bankrate where they advertise whatever the mortgage professional gives them.  This application runs on a mortgage professionals website and redisplayes their wholesale lenders pricing feeds.

@Jim:  (Not including beta testers), we're looking at a price point of $499 one time set-up and $199/month.  Its not cheap to configure real time wholesale direct pricing :)

@stephanie: I can only handle one problem at a time :)...and I'm really happy the crappy brokers are gone or leaving too.

Good to see you Brian...

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Jeff,

Interesting tool. More interesting comment thread. I have never practiced anything but transparency, probably because I, like Brian Brady (and possibly others here), came out of the securities business (options, specifically) where a discussion of this type doesn't even take place.  Transparency is the coin of the realm (although it is actually broached there too, just in much more obsure ways).

When I think of the mortgage - and to a lesser degree real estate - industry, I am reminded of an old wild west philosophy: there's no law west of the Missouri and no God west of Texas. :)  It's nuts out here and I applaud anyone aiming to bring some order to it.  Brian has some great suggestions on how to market your new product and generate business (but then he always does!).  And Robyn, despite her patronizing attitude about what we do and don't understand of banking, nailed what would be of greatest help: education.  This talk of transparency though, IMHO, generally misses the mark.

We dont' practice transparency as a marketing angle or a way to generate more business. Hell, most clients don't appreciate or even understand what we're explaining while we're explaining it.  Long ago I tired of losing business to the liars while I was exposing all the hidden rates and fees... most people prefer the lie!  No, we don't practice transparency for our client's benefit (although they most assuredly DO benefit by it).  Transparency is a necessity of reflection.  By that I mean you practice transparency so that you can look at your reflection in the moring and like what you see.  If that's not important to you than you either don't practice transparency or you USE as a marketing ploy.  If something better comes along you'll move along too.  If it does matter, than you are transparent whether the client "gets" it or not.

If you want marketing ideas, talk to Brian Brady.  If you want to retain long term clients, give them what they need (not always the same as what they want) and do so professionally.  But don't mistake full disclosure lending as a client panacea.  Transparency is a necessity of reflection

Posted by Sean Purcell almost 11 years ago

You guys just don't get it, you think banks should disclose how much they are making?  After all of the cost and with the YSP they pay to the brokers I guarantee it's next to nothing!  Banks are praying to break even in any market on the mortgage end.

Robyn, that's an unknowing statement.

It's been said by banks for years that they are "just buying the business" for the servicing rights and that has been a false statement.  I've worked on both sides of secondary marketing (both buyer and seller of whole loans) and can tell you that there is PLENTY of profit in the originating lender's pocket. 

A simple way to detrmine what that profit is to match up the pricing on a MBS security with a similar coupon, knock off .125 and you'll find the mandatory deliver price.  Today, on a 6% coupon, that would be par to the originating lender.  That same lender is offering the whole loan at a .875% cost for a 12 day lock (plus their $500-700 in junk fees).  Pull put the 20 to 30 bp for hedging the pipeline, and banks are making .375% to .5% on conforming loans.  Remember, they didn't originate nor process the loan; it was delivered to them.

There can be transparency in banks' lending operations, as well; I just gave it to you.

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) almost 11 years ago

Since you like to evoke ideas..here's mine on your Blog.

This entire "transparent" angle that you are playing here...is crystal clear to me. Everyone here should be looking at the WIIFM behind this post. As in "What's in it for me?"

The idea of creating a "transparent" industry should be carried out throughout the rest of commerce then, right? Why doesn't Wal-Mart print the wholesale price on their items, or McDonalds should hand out a "food-cost" disclosure along with a Happy Meal...that way the customer will now the actual price. Name one other industry that ever was asked to do that?!

Very interested take on the mortgage industry...now alll of a sudden..here comes the hero, with his miraculous "customer saving" software. Which since by his admission is trying to lower the costs and fees for consumers...looks to profit by builiding a fee based service. Wow, where have all the non-profits gone?

Anyway, there a few reasons why this site (and I hope it doesn't) work out:

1. If you actullay did some research into the market place....majority of customers would tell you that they "understand" the paperwork, just didn't feel like reading it all. This is important b/c those same people will spend more time researching a week's vacation than a refiance or purchase loan.

2. Great, I'm Joe Consumer...and I have access to wholesale rates! (Now what do I do with that info?) Demand that Banks and Brokers offer those to me? Sure thing, while I'm at it...I'll tell the title companies and appraisers and underwriters that their services should be lowered as well. I'm the customer!!!!! I want a Free Loan.

3. Illegal Disclosure of the Information provided. I'm PRETTY SURE that most rate sheets are protected information through broker agreements, and are surely not indended to be viewed by the general public. It's also HIGHLY unlikely that the information which would drive your site would be in "real-time" and accurate..since no Lender in their right and legal mind would agree to feed it to you. You would simply need to get that from some entity with little or no scruples, or use your "mortgage position" to obtain them and run those numbers yourself....Probably why many posts said they wer getting inaccurate reads from your website. Anyways, if you are doing that...you should stop before you do lose that mortgage position. If the Banks found out you were reposting the infomration from their rate sheets to a website for the consumer...you would pretty much be in violation of many agreements.

4. As far as regulation goes....there's plenty of that to be found already...with much more to come in the next few months...so relax, Wyatt Earp. You don't need to save anyone. Or do you? Maybe you can use these posts for some actual good...and show the world...by spotlighting some Brokers or Bankers who do it RIGHT.  One quick note on the REALTOR while I'm at it. In the State of NJ, A Broker is only allowed to charge 4-4.5% of the transaction as closing costs, while the Realtor can charge 6%, with NO Disclosure. They can alos represent BOTH sides of the transaction with a simple document called "Dual-Agency"...you want to talk about Equity stripping and conflicts of interests...look no further than right there. That being said, broker fees aren't always "maxxed out" either. I review more Realtor commissionss @ 6% HUDs than 3% ones that's for sure.

The damage in what you are attempting to do ....by promulgating the "bad broker" myth is the most "transparent" thing in your motivation to create such a website. If you simply did the opposite, that would be a better step in the right direction.

Fortunatley there are people smart enough out there to see this for what it is.....not from some of these additional posts though.

 

Posted by David Barris (Mid Atlantic Capital) almost 11 years ago

Their can be profit in selling mortgage backed securities, no doubt, if the market is going in their favor.  But then anyone can make money when the trend is improving. Look how many bail when the market turns, lenders and brokers alike. When the market goes in the other direction, it's brutally painful to the bottom line.  So the profits then offset the losses, thus in the end, break even.  That's my point.  The banks are taking the capital market risk, not the mortgage broker.

When you say 12 day price, you can bet that is mandatory delivery at least the lender HAS to deliver, meaning there is a penalty if they don't and it's probably serviced released so an SRP will be paid.  More than likely a bank is buying the loan/loans and is willing to pay the servicing release premium because they know the value of retaining and servicing the loans for years to come.  So paying a SRP may (not always) be cheaper than them originating the loan, hedging the pipe, paying a retail loan officer, or wholesale broker. They still need to service that loans for years to get a return on what they paid for it.  If they are lucky they can hold on to these pools of loans and wait for the market to be favorable and then sell it in an MBS.  Another risk for them........ money sitting on the shelf they can't lend out again. Remember what happend when investors quit buying loans, lenders, banks had no where to go.....many didn't survive.    

True, the banks are not originating the loans on the wholesale side, they do however have to pay underwriters, and processing and closing staff, plus the back office "shippers" and servicing staff, tech people, and secondary marketing people, plus general overhead. 

Some people think that a broker making 1% is a lot of money for a single transaction. As you pointed out lenders don't "make" even close to that in a good market.  People forget and as you well know that their are processing staff, commission to be paid, plus ligit "junk fees" that brokers charge, overhead, etc. It cost just as much to originate, close and service a $100,000 dollar loan as it does a $1,000.000 dollar loan.  It's a trade off. BTW, Do you upcharge a small loan and discount a large loan?

Conforming loans in general do have an ultimate investor with the MBS program, but your jumbos are hit or miss with investors anymore.  So what are they supposed to do with those loans.... they sit on the shelf collecting interest, not where most banks really want to be.  Even your portfolio lenders may keep the loans on the shelf for awhile, they may season them up a bit, get a good track record, market improves, then they sell them.  They retain the servicing rights though if possible, because once again that is where they make their money in any market, long term. 

My guess is when you were dealing with MBS market it was when the market was in a upward trend.  Just like any business it has cycles, it's hard to not lose the shirt on your back when it's down. When you think the market is getting worse you just lock the loan with the lender, you're protected and so is your client. It's the bank's that are blowing in the wind trying to hang on.

Sorry Jeff, we're getting side tracked here, nice bantering with you #1.

Sean, really not trying to be patronizing, 25 years in the business you get pretty thick skin. There just isn't a magic bullet that's fair to everyone, transparancy is a nice word but I don't think practical.  Want to start a school?  :)    

 

Posted by Robyn Guinn, Home staging, Arizona (StageAZ) almost 11 years ago

David, just read your post! You nailed it!  Thanks for having the eloquence to lay it out properly, I just get frustrated!!

Posted by Robyn Guinn, Home staging, Arizona (StageAZ) almost 11 years ago

Jeff, you missed my point. I am not against a product that is transparent. I am against a product that will bring more confusion and distrust to an already untrusted industry.

Bankrate allowed people to quote par or below rates on their website and the consumers couldnt get the rates. This created MORE confusion and distrust.

I will keep an open mind and will be interested to see it working on some sites. But for a client to prequal themselves.... I just don't they are ready for that yet.

Edited to add: but it looks like we will see if they are ready!!!!

Posted by Tom Burris, Texas/Louisiana Mortgage Pro - 13 YRS Experience (NMLS# 335055) almost 11 years ago

Jeff C. stated: My rants typically revolve around the need for greater transparency ...radical transparency...in the mortgage industry, centered around the belief that consumers and real estate agents should be afforded unabated access to wholesale direct, unmanipulated mortgage rates and their actual costs.

Marc response: "I have an obligation to meet and exceed the reasonable expectations of a Realtor partner but there is no duty to provide to them what my capacity to earn is."

Jeff C Response: But last time I looked at a HUD-1, I knew exactly how much the real estate professional made on the transaction...6% (or whatever) may be exhorbitant but I knew exactly how much they made and the client agreed to it in writing long before the closing.

My response is still the same.. I do not care what a Realtor earns on a transaction..it is of no concern to me. In most cases we don't know until we have the P/S, so am I to assume that the Realtor should tell me beforehand what he/she is earning? The only concern I have is that the Realtor act in the best interest of the client... To suggest that I inform a Realtor what I earn upfront..is hilarious. If the client wishes to divulge that information, I'm fine with that. My relations have no concern as well. They know the client will be in good hands, will be treated professionally, and honestly

I believe that all ethical mortgage professionals are upfront...do educate their clients on fees, loan structure, ysp, and the relation to rate. All of their clients and ours know exactly what they are paying before closing. Your suggestion that consumers need your widget penalizes these brokers by signifying they cannot be transparent, has not been until now, and attempts to simplify a process that really isn't just about rate and fees. Pretty soon we'll go down to the local Wall-Mart or Burger King and say I'd like a number 5 please...yep ..yep, I'd like that in a 30 Yr at 6.0% 97% Purchase..to go please...nope..no..no I/O..thank you!

I do see where you attempting to go with this, and it does have some meat to it...I just think parts of your message are off a bit...a little biased and definitely open to negative interpretation. But I do see some good intention.

BTW: Great Post from Sean Purcell and I think America's # 1 Mortgage Broker hit it on the head too. I spent 15 years in wholesale...let me say, banks are in the biz to make..not break even, not lose, but win

 

Posted by Marc Richie (Mortgage Consultant/NMLSR 57751 Wells Fargo Home Mortgage) almost 11 years ago

Dave...most excellent post!!!!! I read yours after I posted, so please forgive the Wal-Mart inclusion...I had already added it.

 

Posted by Marc Richie (Mortgage Consultant/NMLSR 57751 Wells Fargo Home Mortgage) almost 11 years ago

@Mid Atlantic:

There's alot of people who hope this doesn't work, as a matter of fact I routinely get anonymous threats via phone and email 'warning' me that im 'messing' with the wrong group of people...which only furthers my belief that this is such a worthy endevour and srtiffens my resolve.

Ill answer your statements in the order they appear:

1)  Not sure where paperwork comes into play here.  RateSpeed redisplays a licensed mortgage professionals rates and pricing without any ability for them to manipulate it prior to reaching the consumers eyeballs.  Consumers are primarily interested in rate and cost

2) Joe Consumer contacts the mortgage professional running RateSpeed and they assist Joe by answering questions and faciliating the loan to closing.  Have you actually run a scenario on the appllcation?  If you did, this answer is pretty self explanatory. 

3)  I'm guessing you didn't read the actual post at the top of this comment thread either.  A licensed mortgage professional has authorized their rates and pricing to be redisplayed via this application on their site(s).  Again please read the post or go to the site and read a little more about how this exactly works.  If you look back, I dont see one comment (actually there is one, but the way it reads makes it obvious they didn't use the application) that says the information is inaccurate.  As a matter of fact, every mortgage professional Ive talked to has commented on how accurate the information really is.

4)  We're not regulating anything, except the quality of information flow between the mo-pro's rate/pricing feeds and the application.  You give me too much credit.    As far as Realtors not disclosing fees, I highly doubt that, as it would be illegal and punishable.  For what its worth I do not agree with Dual Agency, its a huge conflict of interest (how can you represent both buyer and seller with equal advice?), many states do not allow it and more should adopt this policy, IMHO.

'Bad brokers' are far from a myth.  What i'm trying to do is help the good ones diferentiate themselves from the rest of the industry.

In the end, there will be mortgage professionals who choose to adopt this and others who oppose it with virility.  Marketing a disintermediating technology is always a fine line between appealing to the consumer and the professional, in this case we may benefit both.  How we market to the consumer is different than how we market to the mortgage professional, is different than how we market to the real estate pro...there are different value propositions for every group.  This is a compelling topic, as the comment thread demonstrates...

Finally, I agree with you 100%, there are people smart enough out there who will see this exactly for what it is.

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Their can be profit in selling mortgage backed securities, no doubt, if the market is going in their favor.  But then anyone can make money when the trend is improving. Look how many bail when the market turns, lenders and brokers alike. 

That's why they hedge the portfolio- it mitigates any market volatility risk.

When you say 12 day price, you can bet that is mandatory delivery at least the lender HAS to deliver, meaning there is a penalty if they don't and it's probably serviced released so an SRP will be paid

Of course.  Whole loans are forward sold, Robyn.  You folks did it at WaMu all the time.  They take in a best-efforts lock and deliver to the securities firm on a mandatory lock.

My guess is when you were dealing with MBS market it was when the market was in a upward trend.  Just like any business it has cycles, it's hard to not lose the shirt on your back when it's down. When you think the market is getting worse you just lock the loan with the lender, you're protected and so is your client. It's the bank's that are blowing in the wind trying to hang on.

Not at all, Robyn.  Price volatility is hedged by selling short.   WaMu did not lose money because of pricing volatility or getting "burned by brokers"; they lost money because they took leave of their senses and made poor underwriting decisions.

I considered you to be one of the more knowledgeable wholesale account executives in Phoenix, when you were at WaMu, so I'm confused with your misdirection.  Do you really believe it's difficult to ascertain a per loan profit on mortgage banking transactions?

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) almost 11 years ago

@sean: I appreciate your thoughts and articulate candor.

@mortgagedesign:

This application validates and identifies ethical mortgage professionals...it's only for ethical mortgage professionals and will serve them well.  

I don't care what a mortgage professional makes either but I (and RESPA Reg X) do feel it should be properly disclosed becasue part of the fee may come from a consumer accepting a higher interest rate than they otherwise qualify for.

I agree my marketing is on the provocative side but all effective marketing is.  I welcome the naysayers, they likely represent a group of people thinking the same thing, and having the ability to answer them is invaluable to me and others. 

What I dont purport to be is an end-all, cure-all.  RateSpeed is a novel tool for the mortgage professional to streamline some of their marketing, appease shoppers and a way for them to differentiate themselves in this ambiguous industry.  Future iterations of this application with additional market data will hopefully foster an even greater understanding to how this industry works for the benefit of all.

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

I've been watching and waiting for others comments on this. I think it's great and timely in the middle of a mortgage revolution!

Watch out...the s*** is about to hit the fan.

Posted by Erica Crowell (eRealty Inc.) almost 11 years ago

Hey Brian, now I remember you.  Thanks for your kind words.  You aren't supposed to remember what company I was with! :) 

WaMu did not lose money because of pricing volatility or getting "burned by brokers"; they lost money because they took leave of their senses and made poor underwriting decisions.

No misdirection intended, I don't think Wamu lost their shirt in capital markets, nor was it strictly underwriting decisions, nor did they get burned by brokers, not any of those........ leave of their senses is probably more accurate indeed. They basically made stupid decisions in a multitude of other areas the last few years.  That's a whole other thread! 

I guess what gets me is it's always the big bad banks that are blamed for everything.  They made poor decisions based on guidelines the investors layed out.  They (Wamu) were the last to come on board with 100% financing, 620 fico, stated for one example. But the market demanded it.  That was the investor guidelines not theirs.  The feds also demand that banks do so much volume in the  "community reinvestment act" type lending. They have to do it, thoses guidelines are also amazing.

I am not all pro bank by any stretch, I think banks make better bankers then they do mortgage bankers.  Most banks have a Treasury Department not a Secondary Marketing Department, big difference as you know.  Countrywide had it together for years now B of A bought them, watch them change to a mortgage bankers mentality. We're all screwed! :) 

Not at all, Robyn.  Price volatility is hedged by selling short.   

 Yes, they do hedge the pipeline but it costs money too.  Short selling is a way to take volitility out of the market which they did sometimes. However, a very small percentage, remember they want the servicing income, long term. Banks are too greedy to give it away for a few bucks.

    Do you really believe it's difficult to ascertain a per loan profit on mortgage banking transactions?

I do believe it's very difficult to ascertain a per loan profit as too many factors are involved at any given time...... at least to the point the information is valuable to the consumer.  Could they pin point now what a particular loan has made them or lost,....probably to the penney, but it's information that is only ACCURATELY available down the road when it's of no use to the consumer.

Anyway Brian you are forcing me to remember all about the mortgage industry, when I happily went into control, alt, DELETE on January 24, when I QUIT!!!   I don't want to mess up Jeff's thread anymore than we have, so keep in touch.  stageaz@cox.net   

Posted by Robyn Guinn, Home staging, Arizona (StageAZ) almost 11 years ago

Jeff C: I don't care what a mortgage professional makes either but I (and RESPA Reg X) do feel it should be properly disclosed becasue part of the fee may come from a consumer accepting a higher interest rate than they otherwise qualify for.

Your initial response started well, but once again you went off kilter and are clearly missing my point... Ethical mortgage professionals already point this out. Additionally, with new legislation, this will be pointed out even more...albeit somewhat one sided and more confusing to the client. Most mortgage professionals support a uniformed and equal platform for disclosure..most including me have no issues in pointing out that in leui of a higher rate I am earning this or crediting back to you this.

Your language once again purports that we do not disclose this to the consumer and that you are the champion...this is where I take offense.

Maybe it should be along the lines of...I don't care what a Mortgage Professionals makes either...I feel this tool will be valuable by enabling the mtg pro to illustrate to the client along with the supplied GFE and TIL the cost, rate, and potential YSP associated with their loan options. My goal as a mortgage professional is to help narrow the field by offering a tool that substantiates and validates the ethical from what may be deemed the rogue individuals might be a better choice of words. my .02 cents and I'm done.

Posted by Marc Richie (Mortgage Consultant/NMLSR 57751 Wells Fargo Home Mortgage) almost 11 years ago

I am not all pro bank by any stretch, I think banks make better bankers then they do mortgage bankers.

Amen, Robyn.

Anyway Brian you are forcing me to remember all about the mortgage industry, when I happily went into control, alt, DELETE on January 24, when I QUIT!!!

Good to see you again.  You did a lot of good work for a lot of brokers.  There is a void in the Phoenix mortgage market with your losss.

Posted by Brian Brady almost 11 years ago

Thanks DUDE!  Now I have to go get busy and do what I love, make a house look pretty so it sells so you guys can do loans and we can get people in their dream homes.  Ahhhh, the American Dream, what has it come to?

Posted by Robyn Guinn, Home staging, Arizona (StageAZ) almost 11 years ago

@mortgagedesign:  My aplogies then, I don't purport to be the champion of disclosure, rather I'd like to enable mortgage professionals with a better ability do that for themselves.  I'm simply providing a tool to help those who choose to do so get there more efficiently. 

Your last paragraph is well stated and recieved over here...even though I'm not a practicing mortgage professional any more :)

Thx for your feedback...

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Hey I think I just solved the whole problem with disclosure.  People know exactly what I make staging because they have to write me a check right?  And Oh, guys, dolls, you'all make mo money than me BTW! :) 

So anyway,  the consumer borrows the money from the bank/lender for the house, the bank wires the money in their bank account, with tight strings of course, and the consumer writes the damn check to the previous lender/builder, title company, broker, insurance company, tax man etc instead of the title company netting everything out and doing it for them.  No hidden fees!!  TA DA! 

Oh to live in my world! 

Posted by Robyn Guinn, Home staging, Arizona (StageAZ) almost 11 years ago

Thank you Jeff! Good luck on the endevour...to be honest, I have not looked at it yet. Seems to me that there are many pros and cons to your application, yes? There are many fine valid points on both sides..I made mine :-) Is there a need for your application?? I don't fully know the answer to that. Can it be a success?? Maybe...I know Zillows mission was to create greater transparency, and while their platform has good intentions, it's not w/o it's challenges, pessimists and unfortunately some of the less than honest opportunist..but it is still evolving and might very well turn out good. You may be on to something..I would just listen to all sides..there are many consummate mortgage professionals here that bring value from from both.

Thanks for engaging me on my opinions

Posted by Marc Richie (Mortgage Consultant/NMLSR 57751 Wells Fargo Home Mortgage) almost 11 years ago

Disclaimer: I am not a mortgage broker, banker, or realtor - I am an investor who happened to stumble upon Active Rain. I have completed hundreds of real estate transactions and have therefore dealt with all of the above many times over. So I guess I'm really a consumer, albeit an atypical one. I therefore feel that I have a thorough (but not expert) understanding of all four perspectives. Brokers, bankers, and realtors are all essential elements of my financial well-being, and for that I am eternally grateful. I have to agree with Tom (Mortgages Unlimited) that it's fascinating to see the dichotomy between positive feedback from realtors and negative feedback from brokers. And then there's the poor, deprived banker caught in the middle of the finger-pointing and name-calling crossfire. It looks to me like there's enough firepower for the bankers to migrate this tangential debate about SRP and secondary markets to another thread. I'd enjoy reading that one too :)

I don't know what's more enthralling - the post itself or the entertainment received from its subsequent comments. Here's some of my favorites:

by Anonymous: "One of the hardest things for folks to understand is that consumers want to be sold." I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're a shade off. Consumers want to feel like they received a "good deal" - whatever that is. They want to feel that the price they paid for a good or service was at a (perceived) discount to the value they received. Their perception of the value received is where "being sold" comes into play.

by TLW: "I know there are folks that don't think The Consumer cares. But many of them do. Once they find out they've been screwed they do lean towards caring." AMEN TO THAT.

by Rick: "As the thieves continue to get out of the business the honesty in the market will correct it self." I agree, but wouldn't a transparency tool help facilitate an expedited correction? Assuming, of course, that the tool actually did what it claims to be able to do.

by Jeff Belonger (I love this one): "A client should be worried about their payment and not their rate." What kind of clients are you referring to? The kind who don't realize that their payment is a direct function of their rate? Isn't an ethical mortgage professional supposed to educate their client so that they understand that the two are directly correlated? It seems that under your premise, there would also be no problem in burying 3 points of YSP in an option arm, and then convincing the consumer that it's a good deal because their payment is low. That comment aside, you did establish some compelling arguments however.

by Mr. Tom Burris (it was so hard to pick just one, this guy is just oozing with enlightening insight): "all of these people looking for the cheapest mortgage will find this 'tool' and get screwed by the bait and switchers who buy these leads. a few will negotiate a good deal..... most will not get the rate quoted by the lead generator." A lot of assumptions here. Did you even read the post? I found this statement halfway through the post: "No we don't buy or sell leads." Judging from your various comments, I must surmise that you didn't make it that far. And are you placing all the MoPros on this thread who embrace this technology into the Bait and Switcher Box? And that they will be unable to deliver their quoted rates? Sounds like it to me. I really enjoy the superfluous fuel you add to the fire though. Keep it up :)

by Mid Atlantic Capital: "If you actullay did some research into the market place....majority of customers would tell you that they "understand" the paperwork." Misspellings aside, this one is almost too laughable to comment on - almost. Are you actually naive enough to believe that the average consumer understands YSP (and the plethora of other fees buried in that paperwork), or have you just been able to sell yourself your own bill of goods? Maybe it's not really the consumer that wants to be sold. Ignorance is certainly bliss for the opaque broker.

by America's #1 Mortgage Broker: "We need not fear price disclosure if what we offer is true value." Like many other statements he makes, this one really resonates. Consumers want value, and if you're offering the best service at a reasonable rate they will do business with you.

For those brokers who don't like what a transparent efficiency tool stands for - don't use it. Those of you who choose to remain entrenched against the "commoditization of the broker" are fighting an uphill battle, IMHO. Not that I devalue the broker - good brokers are integral to my success. But fear of change often begets the juvenile knee-jerk reactions that are rampant in this thread. As I understand it, the broker still chooses what he wants to charge the client. Isn't that still capitalism? A transparent marketplace is synonymous with an efficient marketplace, and an efficient marketplace drives economic progress. I'm a consumer, and I love being able to see what I qualify for, and what I'm being charged for valuable services rendered. And I believe the consumer always ends up getting what they want, just as soon as the producer figures out the right business model to profit from it.

We're living in the Information Age. The ability to withhold information from the consumer will become increasingly more difficult with the passage of time. These are just the observations of a consumer and a capitalist.

Posted by Travis Stecklein almost 11 years ago

Jeff,

Very interesing and I had fun playing around with it. It seemed very upfront which IMO, is what consumers are really looking for. It's not so much looking for the cheapest fees, (even though advertising super low rates certainly does generate the leads) but looking for something they don't have to fear being changed on them midway through the process or finding out at closing that the "low advertised rate" has a plethora of catches to it or has changed since they first started the process.

Will the days of having to explain what that super low rate being advertised on the billboard along the major highway be over? No... but at least we have a professional reference to direct people to.

I would be really interested in seeing a list of mortgage professionals that put your "widget" in place on their websites for an easy to use directory.

For the Record -- we still use the same Mortgage Broker that we've been using for over five years due to their knowledge -- not because they are the cheapest --- but because we know what they say can and will be done. In other words, the service and knowledge are far superior then many of the services that have created a bad name for all the professionals.

Posted by Paul Francis, Las Vegas Real Estate Agent - Summerlin Homes (Francis Group Real Estate) almost 11 years ago

Jeff,

...that is some pretty nice kung-fu you have here.

Steve

Obeoman

Posted by Obeoman Glade Jones (www.obeo.com) almost 11 years ago

Jeff..actually went and played with the widget...IMHUO... not bad, some of the pricing was a bit higher than some that I used, but all in all fairly accurate. It does what I do now when I sit with a client. I do show rate sheets, I do show pricing traunches, and again, we explain how each traunch effects the borrowers rate, closing cost ect. But after demo, it really is not a bad an idea, I can see where this can be a legitimate aid. I still argue my Realtor position..unless they are a licensed mortgage pro that is.

I think an earlier poster mentioned the wholesale lender response to this may not be well met. We can show rate-sheets, but I don't know if we are allowed to post lender rates. Since the consumer does not see investor..I imagine it's ok. Needs some refinements, but it's beta. Good luck with this really.

BTW: hit the buy now button to see what would happen...don't need any mortgage pros contacting me :-)

Posted by Marc Richie (Mortgage Consultant/NMLSR 57751 Wells Fargo Home Mortgage) almost 11 years ago

Love the "transparency" of the $2000 broker fee.    You're making your money in that fee rather than in origination.  How creative! I think AIM Loan and Ditech beat you to that about 6 years ago.

In this market, a smart consumer would go to your site, print out their offer, and then take it to Countrywide or Bank of America, who would match the rate and do the loan as a no cost refi.  That's what I would do if I needed to refinance my own home today.  A lot of loss leading going on out there.

Your posts come across like you're doing this for charity or out of the goodness of your heart.  I guess deep down, we all might like to work for not for profit agencies, but you're definitely "for profit", and I have no problem admitting that I work in order to make a profit.

Your business model is similar to MLS4owners and flat fee/discount real estate companies, which is fine, if that's a strategy that you want to pursue.  Commoditization of the mortgage and real estate industries has been going on for a long time, and will continue. 

I do notice that your site does nothing to help consumers actually determine which mortgage is right for them, nor does your site mention a follow up timeframe to review the clients actual needs.  But with your pricing structure, and a business model that only looks for single transactions rather than relationship business, you really can't afford to place the consumers' long term financial wellbeing as a priority.

I do like the sensationalism, though.  "how most broker/banker lenders make money off of you".

It's 2008.  Is there anyone who doesn't realize that lenders make money by selling money at a higher cost than they get it for?  Is there anyone that cannot figure that out from basic logic?  Last I checked, I think farmers, car dealers, dentists, and anyone else in our free market economy also follows this tenet of capitalism if they plan to turn a profit.  One could just as easily sensationalize "how Jeff Corbett uses his website to make money off of you".  We're capitalists, and in the absence of a barter economy, everyone needs to make money for their time and efforts.

I also commend you on your creativity. Your site is a great concept. Removing yourself from the mortgage industry during tough times rather than trying to find new ways to keep your mortgage business afloat was probably a wise choice, especially in the Irvine & Sacramento markets,

 

 

 

Posted by David Mordue - NMLS 120640 Wells Fargo - Kennewick (509) 736-2618 (Wells Fargo Home Mortgage) almost 11 years ago

@ Steve:  Don't know about Kung-Fu but somethimes I wear Hai Karate ;)

@mortgagedesign: 'some of the pricing was a bit higher than some that I used' --I'd be happy to config your specific lender feeds to a RateSpeed app for you to put on your site :)

No worries, no mortgage professional will be calling you...all info received from the application currently running on the ratespeed.com domain is stored on our secure servers and will not be shared with any 3rd parties...we respect your privacy and don't sell leads. 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

@David: "You're making your money in that fee rather than in origination."

Nope.  If you would take the time to read and understand a little better, the $2000 fee is nothing but filler to demonstrate the application.  Its ultimately up to the mortgage professional who licenses their own iteration of RateSpeed to determine what that fee is. 

I'm not doing this for charity, we charge the mortgage professional a one time set up and monthly licensing fee to run an individualized version of this application on their website. Yes, I am a capitalist in many senses too.

"I do notice that your site does nothing to help consumers actually determine which mortgage is right for them nor does your site mention a follow up timeframe to review the clients actual needs."

That would be up to the licensed mortgage professional who is running a RateSpeed application (widget) on their site.  Please go back to the top of this page and read the post again.  You should also read this.

I left the mortgage industry proper becasue innovation rarely comes from within, in other words, I couldn't do 'this' as a licensed mortgage originator and not have conflict of interest issues...people would've then accused me of cherry picking or keeping the best 'leads' for myself, I'm very cognizant of that.  *Repeating becasue its become necessary* We do not sell leads. 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Looks like another lead capture website, otherwise why require email address?

 

Posted by Dan almost 11 years ago

@Dan:  Great question/observation, and a common one. For this reason we are moving the email address to the results page of the application, only asking for it if the consumer wants their rates emailed to them or otherwise requests to be contacted. 

Currently the email address would only retained and shared with a mortgage professional if they make the above requests, but it's impossible for the consumer to know this, so we're moving it appropriately.

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Well it should just be a simple question for the consumer or client. Do you want the cheapest deal or the best deal? I am very transparent and upfront when I tell my clients that I will not be the cheapest deal in town if they call enough people as there will always be someone cheaper. Through years of interviewing and conducting mid-process survey's, post-closing survey's and asking what someone said when they referred them to us, it ALWAYS comes back to 3 things, #1 our professionalism, #2 our advice concerning wealth creation and debt management, and #3, our desire to always put the client first.

 Never are we referred for being the cheapest nor do I get the call, "my realtor told me to call you because you will pay for my appraisal and give me the cheapest deal."

 I am very transparent, my clients know exactly what I make on their deal to include YSP or SRP depending on if I am brokering or using our bank, and I have no problem articulating why I am making that much. Some have balked and pointed out their credit union was cheaper and I told them I would understand if my UVP and ongoing management of their mortgage was not valueable to them, then working with me may not be the best thing for them. Typically they still work with me but a few I do lose. It does save disappointment for the client in the future though when the next time they expect you to match their credit union again. Also, referrability is key to anyone I continue to manage their mortgage for. If they think I am too expensive and will not refer those people they care about, it probably will not be a good fit.

 No where in here do I see comments about US qualifying the client to work with us and our business model. It almost appears most will take what they can get, I hope most of us can get a mindset change with this because if you feel desperate and take on people your normally wouldn't take on, then they are going to bring 10 more just like them to your database, beware. I think those people are called low pay off/high maintainance, not good.

 Again, do you want to align yourself as a true professional and be your client's trusted advisor or are you going to refer them to a website to see what the best rate they can get that HOUR they check since they are not locked in.  This is where I feel there is a big disconnect it sounds like. Transaction based versus professional and trusted advisor/manager.

 Sure, a person can use Turbo Tax instead of a using a CPA, they can also call legal assistance at the local county for a law suit they want to file, or they can hire an attorney. They can pick a top financial advisor they have been referred to in confidence or they can go on www.Morningstar.com and pick the best performing stocks on their own and hope for the best.

Finally now they can go to a place like RateSpeed and get their rate and call the closest application taker or they can call their top certified mortgage planner in the area that they have built a relationship with.

All of these examples give the impression or appearance that they are cutting out the middle man and saving money, but truly, in these professional advice fields we are talking about, it can't be minimized to shopping for a DVD player in Consumer Electronics where their potential for devastation either legally or financially is too great.

Surprisingly, this hasn't drawn any comments from our trusted real estate partners where their roles have been minimized with so many websites like FSBO, Zillow, etc. Why pay 6%+ if you can go to a place like RealtorSpeed, to get the lowest agent to bid on how little they will take to list your place? Aren't realtor commission fees negotiable as well? Isn't that up for debate just as what a mortgage professional should make or is it simply the transparency of it this post is concerned with.

 Thoughts?

 Be Blessed!


Travis 

Posted by Travis Neliton, Travis Neliton NMLS 283894 (Caliber Home Loans CHL NMLS# 15622) almost 11 years ago

Good post, Travis.

Jeff's actual model is really not new in any way.  Yes, his website has a particularly sensational format, but I'm going to assume that in and of itself is not going to get very far.  Reason being, it can be easily replicated.  Secondly, think of the potential liablility involved with violating wholesale lenders disclosure policies about their rates.  Very few large lenders allow for their wholesale rates to be distributed publicly. ING is the only one that I can think of off hand that allows anyone to access their rates directly online with no account setup or passwords.

Think about it from this perspective;

Any broker signing up to use his "service" is really just signing up to make $500 per loan net after all expenses, right?  And unless your economy of scale is huge, you can't very well create a business and deliver great service and follow up on $500 per file.  And in light of all the consolidation, layoffs, etc with wholesale lenders, the customer service most brokers are receiving on their files is horrible.

Have a few borrowers with missed closing dates on their purchases, and then have to reimburse them for the extension fees, and your suddenly in the red for 3 - 5 times the profit margin on the loan.

What's more, nobody signing up for his site is ever going to get the type of volume that is needed to get the deep discounts from wholesale lenders.  Some lenders are wanting $20-$40 million per year in funded volume to offer any discounts on pricing.  I don't really view this model as a threat in any way, simply because my company is doing $250 million a month in just correspondent lending.  I'm already getting every type of volume discount.

Compare this to the current loss leaders like Countrywide and Bank of America who can take the profits that they make on a less savvy consumer and use them to cover the losses they take to gain new consumers that are of value to them.  Brokers don't have the structure to follow that business model of subsidizing losses.  They can't/wont' do loans where they have to actually pay out of pocket to get the deal done.

AimLoan, Ditech, etc. are big enough that they can afford the type of model that Jeff's is working off of, and have deep enough pockets to smooth out the bumps.  They are also direct lenders, and can't put the pressure on their people to fund loans right away.  Joe Broker can't do anything other than leave messages for some wholesale office 3 time zones away when trying to fund a purchase on time.

Why even do the work involved for $500 profit, when you could just as easily try to simply afilliate market to large lenders and get money that way. I've seen some people successfully do nothing but create affilliate links to lenders and get paid on completed loans. 

The real bottom line to this is that there will be no way to deliver customer service consistantly for most small companies.  Medium and large companies could simply carbon copy this model and see if they can market their direct lending in this manner in addition to their retail offerings.

Realisitically, my company could replicate what Jeff has and probably surpass it with nothing more than $5000 for website development and maybe $20,000 worth of Adwords and some targeted online PR. 

There is no underlying concept that Jeff can patent or copyright to protect his model from replication based on what I'm looking at.  Anyone could copy it if he did begin to make money.

I do see that Jeff is smart enough to realize that he could not even begin to compete with Bankrate, LendingTree, etc in online advertising, simply because they pay so much for Adwords and other PPC.

He's on the right path in terms of trying to grow his website organically.

 

 

Posted by David Mordue - NMLS 120640 Wells Fargo - Kennewick (509) 736-2618 (Wells Fargo Home Mortgage) almost 11 years ago

@Travis:  No one is asking you to be the cheapest, just disclose your fee, whatever that is, upfront.

Since this application runs on your site and configures your wholesale/correspondant pricing feeds, and keeps you in the middle of the transaction, your UVP's are maintained and further evangelized. 

 

Again (ad nauseum) this application simplifies a core value proposition: ethical, transparent disclosure of your rates and fees.  My company objectively maintains the integrity and purity of the information flow between your lender relationships and the consumer, so the consumer can know beyond the shadow of a doubt, without you having to open your mouth that you are what you say you are, upfront, honest, transparent and ethical. 

The consumer will not go to RateSpeed.com to get their rates, they will go to your (the licensed mortgage professionals) site.  We are NOT cutting out the middle man, we are empowering the quality mortgage professional with a piece of software the streamlines and clarifies the shopping experience for the ever discerning and enlightened consumer. 

@David:  Any website can be easily replicated, however the technology that powers RateSpeed on behalf of the mortgage professional can not be easily replicated, i've been around this block a few times to know this much.  The marketing is thoughtfully sensational, remarkable if you will, all successful marketing is. 

"Secondly, think of the potential liablility involved with violating wholesale lenders disclosure policies about their rates.  Very few large lenders allow for their wholesale rates to be distributed publicly."

Since this application will run on a mortgage professionals website, using their relationships, you're telling me someone would run afoul of disclosure policies by disclosing everything??  Isn't this what policies are implemented for, to insure such practices? Isn't this exactly what current legislation making its way through Washington is pushing for?

"Any broker signing up to use his "service" is really just signing up to make $500 per loan net after all expenses, right?"

No.  Since the professional decides what their fee is, the $/loan net after all expenses is 100% their choice and determination to make.  

"Have a few borrowers with missed closing dates on their purchases, and then have to reimburse them for the extension fees, and your suddenly in the red for 3 - 5 times the profit margin on the loan."

If the mo-pro is disclsoing what their flat fee is, they are vetted against falling 'into the red' due to such circumstances.   

"What's more, nobody signing up for his site is ever going to get the type of volume that is needed to get the deep discounts from wholesale lenders."

No one is demanding 'deep discounts'...you charge what you need to and its disclosed it up front.  

"I'm already getting every type of volume discount."

...and they would be reflective in your personalized rendition of RateSpeed since it redisplays your pricing feeds.

"Medium and large companies could simply carbon copy this model and see if they can market their direct lending in this manner in addition to their retail offerings."

There is no way to verify if 'these companies' are actually displaying transparent pricing, since they control what information is redisplayed to the public.  Under this model, we maintain that flow of information as an objective 3rd party on behalf of the mortgage professional and/or company, insuring that the quality, accuracy and integrity of information in 100% transparent.  That is our main value proposition to the mortgage pro and the consumer...no ability to manipulate the rate and pricing information. 

"Realisitically, my company could replicate what Jeff has and probably surpass it with nothing more than $5000 for website development and maybe $20,000 worth of Adwords and some targeted online PR"

You could throw up a website and gain traffic for sure (anyone can) but you couldn't deliver on what our underlying technology has the ability to offer. 

"There is no underlying concept that Jeff can patent or copyright to protect his model from replication based on what I'm looking at.  Anyone could copy it if he did begin to make money."

Anyone can make such representations, executing on them is a whole different story.  In the end, you really don't fully understand what you're looking at, otherwise you wouldn't/couldn't make such representations. 

"I do see that Jeff is smart enough to realize that he could not even begin to compete with Bankrate, LendingTree, etc in online advertising, simply because they pay so much for Adwords and other PPC."

Bankrate, LendingTree et al are competely different business models, flycatcher/marketing websites to aggregate and sell leads and/or advertising  RateSpeed in a specialized piece of licenseable technology mortgage professionals run on their sites. 

"He's on the right path in terms of trying to grow his website organically."

Thanks, IMHO there is no better way to grow a business.  Anyone loking for the definition of Social Media ROI, need look no further.

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago
Jeff, I can appreciate you are passionate about this and you are trying to respond to everyone but like many other posts, you miss the writer's point and mine. I feel it is malpractice on the mortgage professional's part to imply or guide a client to a website to figure out their own rate just like it would be for a financial planner to tell their client to go to a website and pick their stock or a real estate agent to guide their client Zillow and let them know what they should list their home for. If we are having our clients focus on our job as a commodity, then why do they need us? I am very blessed to have clients and strategic partners that trust me and value my advice rather than needing to provide a widget for them to appreciate their deal. Travis
Posted by Travis almost 11 years ago

@Travis:  If you take the time to comment, the least I can do is answer you...hopefully I dont miss the mark again:

"I feel it is malpractice on the mortgage professional's part to imply or guide a client to a website to figure out their own rate just like it would be for a financial planner to tell their client to go to a website and pick their stock or a real estate agent to guide their client Zillow and let them know what they should list their home for."

RateSpeed is an application that runs on the mortgage professionals website, using their information. No mortgage pro need take their clients anywhere than their own site.

This is probably very confusing since right now RateSpeed is only 'on' ratespeed.com.  In the next few days you will see mortgage brokers who are running RateSpeed on their own websites...then all 'this' should make alot more sense...

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Jeff,

Thanks again for your time. I feel bad even commenting because I know you have great intentions and this tool you have created will be helpful for many I am sure. Similar to me being critical of a sweet gal that was on here promoting her contract processing and I came up with all the reasons why I don't use contract processing.

The reality is I am sure she has a wonderful business and can be very helpful to many mortgage professionals that do not share my business vision and model.

Like your tool with RateSpeed, I am sure it will be helpful to many that do not share my beliefs on who we should be to our clients and strategic partners as mortgage professionals.

My biggest issue with a tool like RateSpeed again is not that they have to go to a website or even that they can go to my website and check its the fact that we are causing our clients to focus on rate! In my opinion all we are doing is causing professional confusion and stress by having them focus on a rate.

So what happens when we get our clients or our realtor partners excited about RateSpeed, we lock the client in to what they feel is the best rate now because they confirmed on "RateSpeed" only to have the market shift as it does daily now and rates are better. So now we have a client checking our website daily to make sure they still have the best rate and when they realize rates have improved on "RateSpeed", now what?

Seriously? The days of relocking or just switching lenders are over and we are being held to pull thru ratios or we lose our relationships with our investors that we have worked hard to build a relationship with.

If we cause our clients to focus on rate, we are setting ourselves up to fail and our clients up for disappointment. Rate and fees should be secondary, if you are creating outstanding value and relationship, rates are what they are. If you turn the focus on what their rate is, then you have just commoditized yourself and it no longer is about relationship anymore, it is about the lowest rate.

I want the best deal for my client, don't get me wrong, but I also don't want the calling me the day before closing wanting a lower rate because RateSpeed said they could get a lower one now.

I guess the easiest comparison would be having my financial planner having a link to "Morningstar's Top 10" on his webpage. So constantly his clients would want to know why their account is only experiencing a 11.2% return if MorningStar has 10 accounts that are all returning more then 11.2%.

Thoughts?

 

Posted by Travis Neliton, Travis Neliton NMLS 283894 (Caliber Home Loans CHL NMLS# 15622) almost 11 years ago

Good point Travis. I would handle the fluctuating rate dynamic by:

Educating my borrowers to the nuances of the mortgage market and that rates change daily, as much as three times in one day.  Since RateSpeed offers real time pricing, these interday pricing changes would be reflected in the application. 

Then educate them what locking a rate means, like you have done above.  Once locked you will provide them a copy of the wholesale rate loack/pricing sheet to demonstrate that you are disclosing the exact rate and price. 

To avoid any surprises, I would reinforce the fact that since rates change daily, after they lock, rates and pricing with they will surely see fluctuations up and down, but they are locked in. 

I fought the 'it shouldnt be just about rates and cost' battle too Travis, but at the end of the day this is #1 on the consumers priorty list.  So I just gave them my exact rates and cost (which surprised them in a positive way) and competed on service and experience. 

Rates are a commodity and this industry in moving that way with a full head of steam.  IMHO this allows professionals to deliver what the borrower wants (direct access to transparent rates and cost) while allowing the professional to focus on client service and expertise. 

Thx for engaging Travis...if you have these issues, thoughts and concerns, its safe to say many others do as well.

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

 

Jeff,

Well crap, I hate to be one of those "guys" that always has to have the last word but you keep coming up with more for me to respond to that I was not expecting. :)

You said, "I fought the 'it shouldn't be just about rates and cost' battle too Travis, but at the end of the day this is #1 on the consumers priority list." I strongly disagree and I would be exiting this industry very quickly if this was #1 on the consumer's list. I am definitely not the cheapest guy in my market nor do I want to be. If this was #1 on the consumer's priority list, my entire business model would have to change with a focus on cutting all corners, staff, and "experience" to have the lowest rates and fees. If you are in this battle, you will never win and someone will always be "cheaper".

Have you read "Blue Ocean Strategy" Well I have created my own "Blue Ocean" in my market and I am very happy to not be competing in the blood or "red ocean" any more where RateSpeed would be a useful tool in that "red ocean"

You also point out, "Rates are a commodity and this industry in moving that way with a full head of steam." Again, if that were the case, time for me to exit the profession.  This is like saying real estate is a commodity, stocks and investments are a commodity, tax preparation and legal assistance is a commodity. If you minimize what you do to a commodity, you will be fighting in the blood bath of your "commodity business"

Of course with technology and services like Zillow, Costco real estate and mortgage, ETrade, Turbo Tax, Pre-Paid Legal services, and now RateSpeed, our professions and advice can be minimized to a website and buy into the belief that we are just a commodity, or we can continue to rise above and never become a commodity to our clients.

 

Like I said though, I am sure RateSpeed will be great for a lot of those people that believe they are just an application taker providing a commodity.

 

Posted by Travis Neliton, Travis Neliton NMLS 283894 (Caliber Home Loans CHL NMLS# 15622) almost 11 years ago

Travis:

Rates and pricing are the commodity, you...the high level professional...are not.  In no way am I trying to minimize or commoditize you or your expertise...

 

Have a good night.

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Ok Jeff,

I just reread my post, that was a little harsh sounding. Maybe it is my ego or desire to keep our profession about advice and not price but you are right people will always try to minimize that. Thank you for you the opportunity to discuss this and keep me on my toes and to remind me to try and find new ways to always add value to my clients and strategic partners outside of a good rate and low fees.

Have a great night as well.

Let me guess, you are voting for Obama too! hahahahaha

Be Blessed!

Travis

Posted by Travis Neliton, Travis Neliton NMLS 283894 (Caliber Home Loans CHL NMLS# 15622) almost 11 years ago

ha, ha, made me laugh Travis.  Seriously, very funny, the Obama thing.  Glad you guys are giving it up......... it's time to call it a night for sure!  Still laughing.................have a good night.

Posted by Robyn Guinn, Home staging, Arizona (StageAZ) almost 11 years ago

Oh my Gosh, I love your webpage Robyn! :) I am glad I made you smile, that's the best part of life right?!

Be Blessed!

Travis

Posted by Travis Neliton, Travis Neliton NMLS 283894 (Caliber Home Loans CHL NMLS# 15622) almost 11 years ago

 Thank you, that was very nice of you.  Yes I'm smiling!  You sound like you're doing what you love too.  It doesn't get much better than that.  I wish that for everyone!  Lots of luck to you in this crazy market.  I'm beautifying one house at a time so it will sell, sell, sell. Then, buyer, seller, realtor, broker, stager, all happy.  It breaks down like this:

Realtor 3%

Broker 1%

Stager.............priceless!

ha, oh great............. laughing again.

Posted by Robyn Guinn, Home staging, Arizona (StageAZ) almost 11 years ago

Am I correct that each mortgage broker who signs up for this will have a form on their website where prospective borrowers enter their information anonymously and they will then get results on just what that specific broker offers?

Also, if someone goes to ratespeed.com instead and fills out the form there, do then then get results for the best rates/fees for all the brokers in the system that do business in their area?

I am a bit confused on how this all works.

Posted by Mike M almost 11 years ago

Mike:

1) Yes, you are correct.

2) If someone goes to ratespeed.com and fills out the form, the information will soon go to the licensed mortgage professional located in the area of the subject property.  The RateSpeed application will only run on ratespeed.com until our beta group is up and running, covering all 50 states...at that time we will have a 'demo' version running on ratespeed.com, pushing all traffic to our licensed affiliates.  

 

@Travis:  LOL 'Insert Time for Change cliche' here'.  :)

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Jeff....I almost fee l as though you actually "enjoy" the arguement part of these blogs..so I'll enduldge you yet again. If not for anything else but the sheer entertainment of it all.

The bottom line here is I'm not sure how much time you've actually spent as a mortage loan officer, banker, originator, realtor..whatever your position is (really doesn't matter). Point to be made, is that you AREN't anymore. If the #1 complaint that you had by customers was that it was rate and fees, then you failed to educate your borrower.

Transparency (now that I'm disgusted with the actual word) is not your job...it appears it's just a way you found to possible make some money. As we speak, this Industry is constantly changing and your "service" becomes less valuable. Full disclosure has already been adopted by many States. YSP is already disclosed on the HUD-1 (as it has been for years)..but that will soon become mandatory "up front" dislcosure. GFEs are required to disclose YSP in a range. If a borrower doesn;t like what they are being charged, where's the gun keeping them from executing their right to rescind?

This service is "crap" for lack of a better term. The motivation you have for trying to sell it is clear enough and the confusion you further cause by it all, is hard to understand for the majority of people reading this page (mortgage/real estate professionals),, but the consumer will understand the value?

All you propse to do, is "police" the information to make it "un-tampered". You are the electronic equivalent of saran wrap. The information, as I pointed out is NOT the property of you, the "mortgage professional" or anyone else to reproduce in ANY way to be displayed to the consumer.

What's so hard to understand here? You can spin this anyway you choose to.

I'm not buying it...and I don't know anyone else in thier right mind who would either.

Posted by Mid Atlantic Capital almost 11 years ago

@Travis Steckelin:

I'm real glad you started that post with your DISCLAIMER. Of course, you would actually need to know something about the topic to comment. I'll assume by the "I've completed 100s of transactions part", that you surely must be an EXPERT on all things real estate. (pleeaze)

The fact that most borrowers do not read the paperwork is TRUE. During the last 10 of your (100s of)"closings" who actually READ the paperwork (and please be honest...if not to me, but to yourself). (((Nobody?))))) My point exactly! How many retained legal?  ((((even less!)))))

For every single loan that was every sold, underwritten and approved the terms and fees were fully disclosed. The exceptions would be cases of FRAUD and in the cases of FEDERALLY chartered bank, the dreaded Yield Spread Premium was not.

How dare you charge someone a rate HIGHER than what they actually qualfiy for? Since when does a FICO score dictate WHOLESALE pricing? Car loan doing that? Credit Cards?......Nope. Just the Mortgage Companies. Afterall, they are the ones to blame for the "mortgage meltdown" right?

Maybe I am naive afterall, but....hey!

What about the self proclaimed Real estate Investors?

 Straw buyers, fraud for housing and profit schemes aside......how much damage do you think has been done to the economy by "flippers"? Foreclosure flips and transfer of titles...lying about occupancy, should I go on?

The FBI has rated mortgage fraud as #7 on their priority list. This is one notch above violent crime, and 6 down from terrorism.......so if that says anything....and many of those cases have involved "real estate investors" conspiring with appraisers and mortgage companies and Realtors.

Dislclosure of YSP ((Important to know b/c that's the whole point of this stupid blog))) is Ratespeed's idea of "ripping off the consumer" by charging them YSPs.

I keep seeing people admit to being capitalists, but the mortgage broker is simply NOT suppoused to be able to make a profit.

Nobody is fooling themselves here.  We live this stuff everyday and it's amazing to me to watch how many real estate professionals, including fellow mortgage bankers/brokers who simply don't have a clue. The same could be said for "investors who just happened to stumble across this website."

Posted by Mid Atlantic Capital almost 11 years ago

Mid Atlantic:

"If the #1 complaint that you had by customers was that it was rate and fees, then you failed to educate your borrower."

That was their #1 complaint about the industry, I satisfied their complaint by disclosing exactly how and what they qualified for.  I educated my borrowers very very well. 

"As we speak, this Industry is constantly changing and your "service" becomes less valuable. Full disclosure has already been adopted by many States. YSP is already disclosed on the HUD-1 (as it has been for years)..but that will soon become mandatory "up front" dislcosure. GFEs are required to disclose YSP in a range."

You are correct, the industry is changing and moving toward this type of full disclosure model, as this progresses this application becomes more valuable.  RateSpeed is helping foster that move by redisplaying a broker/bankers wholesale/correspondant pricing feeds (including YSP) up front at the point of sale.  This helps consumers decide what rate, program and price they want and encourages them to contact the mortgage professional to answer all the other ancillary questions that go into acquiring the best mortgage for their needs. 

"This service is "crap" for lack of a better term."

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

"But the consumer will understand the value?"

The value to the consumer is that they can know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the information they see on a broker/bankers site is unmanipulated, uninflated and completely transparent.  These rates are deliverable by the mortgage professional running RateSpeed on their site. 

"All you propse to do, is "police" the information to make it "un-tampered". You are the electronic equivalent of saran wrap.  The information, as I pointed out is NOT the property of you, the "mortgage professional" or anyone else to reproduce in ANY way to be displayed to the consumer."

Not a bad analogy.  Insuring the purity and integrity of the information is our main value proposition for the consumer and the mortgage professional.  So what your're saying is that the consumer isn't entitled to see exactly what the mortgage professional can offer, or you dont want them to see it..? Are these your rules?  I'm amazed at how far some folks will put their foot in their mouth.

"I'm not buying it...and I don't know anyone else in thier right mind who would either."

I guess there are alot of crazy people out there...

Cheers!

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Jeff....seriously. You "used" to originate loans, but now you don't. The reason (self admitted) is NOW that you educated your clients VERY very well. Perhaps if that were true you'd still be orignating loans? Seems like sour grapes to me. This is a great industry, and I personally applaud your decision to exit. Now the woird CRAP when used to describe your site is much more than opinion...it really does describe the worth of it.

Please don't think I'm heartless here.....I do support your efforts to find something profitable in today's economy, BUT.... what I don't support is your need to use a "scapegoat" (transparent dislcosure ) to promote your own personal gain.

What you fail to miss (again, again & again) is that the "rules" aren't not mine. They are the rules of the banks. To break it down simply, b/c you need me to: the bank issues a rate sheet that is the PROPERTY OF THE BANK. That property is for the EXCLUSIVE USE OF THE MORTGAGE PROFESSIONAL. IT CANNOT BE REDISTRIBUTED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF THE LENDING INSTITUTION, AND CANNOT BE REPRODUCED IN ANY WAY. It's pretty much the same with COPYRIGHT LAWS, or similar example. If you were so inclined to "place your foot in your own mouth", (like me?) perhaps you'd like to share the names of the Lenders who have agrred to post that PROTECTED information on a REPRODUCED website so you can make some money reselling it by charging "admission" for it.

The other point you fail to miss, is the actually need for this service. If Banks/Brokers require full disclosure who needs you or RateSpeed? (((I hope for your sake that you at least copyrighted that name...b/c it's in your m.o. to steal and reproduce things...so who knows?))))

I know that most mortgage professionals would agree the last thing we need is another middleman.

Now, to address the value to the consumer: that value is given by true mortgage professionals with ethics (like me).  We work hard finding solutions to financial problems, pairing them with banks..and yes, we do make a profit (so shoot us).

What I don't do is blame "my problems" on what others do....I just find solutions and close loans. You on the other hand, cry for 18 months on a website blog and then shift all of your focus to self promote your "crappy website".

To be honest YSP is something I don't use very often. In fact, we have earned very little.

What I do, is explain the difference between a "zero-closing" cost loan vs. a Par rate deal.

We do more deals at par than we do with YSP, and in the cases we do it is disclosed as per state regs. I never said that the consumer was not entitled to see what the mortgage professional sees...only that the "scapegoat" you chose, is a poor one to pick on. The true problem with the industry is in the advertsing. Our company approves all ads, and we are simply not allowed to run misleading advertising. We have a hard time competing with the other companies who run mathematically impossible APRs...so we chose to market other ways.

The fact that ALL other industries do not require that form of disclosure was the point, but there you going "spinning" it. 

Why don't you really be "transparent"..here copy and paste this into a new post:

HI, my name is Jeff Corbett and I'm the "X-Broker". I know the name's stupid, but it's the one I'm keeping. Anyways, for all of you unruly MO-PROs  (another really great coined term that I like to shoot myself whenever I read) It's time for a REVOLUTION.

Here's How: For a low fee of $2,000 plus monthly maintnence charges, your customers can now come to a personalized website and view infomration that I am not legally allowed to show you. I don't care who knows it or who that bothers b/c after all I am the X-Broker.

As the X-Broker, I have personally spearheaded the push towards mortgage transparance thorugh my very intellectual blogging skills and hope to be elected to Office some day.

 Maybe you guys can all send me money for that too.

My campaign slogan will be "X-Broker, look no further when it comes to secure change for you!------your change will be secure right here in my pocket!"

I would "toast back a cheers'", but I don't drink with criminals.

 

 

 

Posted by Mid Atlantic Capital almost 11 years ago

Rob:  Its considered poor etiquette to advertise your service on someone else's post, which is why I deleted your comment...I would encourage you to write your own post but in the interest of allowing people to compare the results between both applications, I'll leave it.

Heather and all other real estate professionals: we offer RateSpeed for your sites as well, through a qualified mortgage professional.

There are a few core differences between RateSpeed and RateWindow. I was the co-founder of RealEspace and impetus behind their RateWindow product.  There are a couple very important differences between the two applications:

RateSpeed has a larger number of wholesale and correspondant lender choices for the mortgage professional to choose from.

RateSpeed can custom configure a wholesale/correspondant lender that is not in our current stable of lenders for the mortgage professional, making the application far more scalable and personal to the mo-pro.  

RateWindow uses NYLX's pricing engine, which can be found on many other third party sites.  RateSpeed is a broader, more scalable equivalent of NYLX. 

RateSpeed does not limit the amount of times one may use the application.  We do not charge on a 'per click' basis, choosing a flat fee for unlimited pulls for the mortgage professional. 

RateSpeed's UI will evolve soon, moving away from the 'alpha' HTML based rendition currently seen into a far more intuitive, educational experience for the user.  Our beta testers will have alot of influence as to how the UI evolves and the functionality it offers.  For our initial release, our goal was to prove that we could accurately and automatically aggregate and configure a mo-pro's wholesale/correspondant feeds into an application that could be embedded on their (and/or a real estate professionals) webiste so consumers on their website could shop to their hearts content, knowing they were seeing the exact rates and pricing that mortgage professional could offer.    We achieved that.

As a company, our main value proposition is to maintain the purity and integrity of information between the wholesale/correspondant and the consumer for the mortgage professional.  We do not solicit leads or orginate mortgages, which Rob does, this is a conflict of interest IMO. 

RateSpeed is an efficiency tool for mortgage professionals, since it automatically aggregates all of their lenders pricing information, allowing an LO to quickly find the best case rate and pricing for a consumer, instead of having to manually and redundantly run a single consumer across multiple lenders. 

@mid atlantic:

"What you fail to miss (again, again & again) is that the "rules" aren't not mine. They are the rules of the banks. To break it down simply, b/c you need me to: the bank issues a rate sheet that is the PROPERTY OF THE BANK. That property is for the EXCLUSIVE USE OF THE MORTGAGE PROFESSIONAL. IT CANNOT BE REDISTRIBUTED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF THE LENDING INSTITUTION, AND CANNOT BE REPRODUCED IN ANY WAY. It's pretty much the same with COPYRIGHT LAWS, or similar example. If you were so inclined to "place your foot in your own mouth", (like me?) perhaps you'd like to share the names of the Lenders who have agrred to post that PROTECTED information on a REPRODUCED website so you can make some money reselling it by charging "admission" for it."

Since the application is used by and for a mortgage professional, it is they who choose to redisplay the rates and pricing they offer.  We can't share the name of the lenders, that information is only provided to the licensed mortgage professional who may disclose their names to the consumer at their choice. 

"The other point you fail to miss, is the actually need for this service. If Banks/Brokers require full disclosure who needs you or RateSpeed? (((I hope for your sake that you at least copyrighted that name...b/c it's in your m.o. to steal and reproduce things...so who knows?))))"

The application is a tool for mortgage brokers and bankers to feature on their sites that allows consumers to anonymously shop while the mo-pro may service their current clients.  You pretty much drop it on your site and let it go.  The consumers who decide to contact you via the application are typically ready to do business with you.  Now you're accusing me of stealing?  Interesting.

"Now, to address the value to the consumer: that value is given by true mortgage professionals with ethics (like me).  We work hard finding solutions to financial problems, pairing them with banks..and yes, we do make a profit (so shoot us)."

As well you should.  We do not mandate in any way shape form or fashion what you charge or profit, thats completely up to the mortgage professional. 

"To be honest YSP is something I don't use very often. In fact, we have earned very little.

What I do, is explain the difference between a "zero-closing" cost loan vs. a Par rate deal."

YSP is an option for the cosumer to finance some or all of their closing costs, you shouldn't 'earn' a penny of YSP for yourself, this would be considered an illegal 'kickback'.  There is no such thing as a 'zero closing cost' loan.  It is these potentially damaging cliche's and marketing ploys that need to be eliminated from the industry all together.

"We do more deals at par than we do with YSP, and in the cases we do it is disclosed as per state regs. I never said that the consumer was not entitled to see what the mortgage professional sees...only that the "scapegoat" you chose, is a poor one to pick on. The true problem with the industry is in the advertsing. Our company approves all ads, and we are simply not allowed to run misleading advertising. We have a hard time competing with the other companies who run mathematically impossible APRs...so we chose to market other ways."

Since RateSpeed only redisplays a qualified mortgage professionals rates and pricing options direct from their source, there is no ability to mislead the consumer with false information, period.  This is (again) the core value of RateSpeed.  I agree that advertising is a big problem: see 'zero cost' closings...

"The fact that ALL other industries do not require that form of disclosure was the point, but there you going "spinning" it."

This isn't all other industries, its the mortgage industry.  Read RESPA and Reg X. 

Yes, we do charge a one time set-up fee and a monthly hosting fee.  Speaking of cliche's, if you close one deal per month using RateSpeed, the application pays for itself 10x over.  Spin-spin...

Ive never had the illusion that RateSpeed would be widley accepted, initially, by most in the industry since it represents a significant paradigm shift in how those in the industry disclose certain vital information.  Change is never comfortable.  As you point out, Washington is pushing toward this level of disclosure, those who adopt this type of disclosure tool early, will be ahead of the curve.

Consumers cannot know that a mortgage professional will be 100% transparent, honest and ethical at first blush, regardless if they are or not.  Consumers don't inherently trust mortgage pros, which is why they shop shop shop.  This tool allows a consumer to shop your rates and pricing on your site as often as they like, it effective says you are all the things you would say to a consumer without having to open your mouth.  It works for you, not against you.  

As to the rest of your comments 'Mid-Atlantic', you are quickly winding down to Godwins Law. At least you know my name and how to contact me.

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

@Robert

Thanks for posting about RateWindow. I guess the best way to see which technology is superior is simply to compare side by side. In the end the consumer wins, so I applaud your effort as well.

@Mid Atlantic

Do you spend more time originating your "par rate" loans or bantering on blogs? I hope some minimal level of expertise can be found in the former, because you're rather inept at the latter.

"This service is "crap" for lack of a better term."

"I'm not buying it...and I don't know anyone else in thier right mind who would either. "

"HI, my name is Jeff Corbett and I'm the "X-Broker". I know the name's stupid, but it's the one I'm keeping. Anyways, for all of you unruly MO-PROs..."

"I would "toast back a cheers'", but I don't drink with criminals."

It appears to me that your Modus Operandi is to simply ridicule and make baseless accusations. Endulging you in an academic debate is the equivalent of inviting a prepubescent boy to chime in on a FED policy meeting. And every "unruly" broker who embraces this technology is a "criminal" who is not "in their right mind?" There may be a few of those criminals who would disagree.

"I'll assume by the "I've completed 100s of transactions part", that you surely must be an EXPERT on all things real estate." Apparently you not only omitted reading the original post, but my comment as well, where I specifically said, "I have a thorough (but not expert) understanding." I guess an unscrupulous broker may be accustomed to overlooking certain things.

"For every single loan that was every sold, underwritten and approved the terms and fees were fully disclosed." And every single loan originator explained all those terms and fees properly, right? And I suppose your favorite movie is Eyes Wide Shut?

"The fact that most borrowers do not read the paperwork is TRUE." And in an earlier post, "If you actullay did some research into the market place....majority of customers would tell you that they "understand" the paperwork." So they understand the paperwork they don't actually read? Very compelling argument.

"I keep seeing people admit to being capitalists, but the mortgage broker is simply NOT suppoused to be able to make a profit." If you disclose to me, the consumer, that you are going to charge me $X to close my loan, is that prohibiting you from making a profit? Is Jeff Marx and the Communist Regime of RateSpeed prohibiting you from setting your own price, and allowing me to make a decision based on supply & demand?

"Nobody is fooling themselves here.  We live this stuff everyday and it's amazing to me to watch how many real estate professionals, including fellow mortgage bankers/brokers who simply don't have a clue. The same could be said for "investors who just happened to stumble across this website." This was the great finale to the "big bad investor" half of your comment. I think we're all aware that there's plenty of blame to go  around for the sad state of the industry, and "flippers" who participated in fraudulent acts were no doubt a part of the problem. But your ancillary rant, with ringing undertones that seemed to place me in that "Big Bad Investor Box," did nothing to bolster your (lack of) position. What is your position anyway? Oh yeah, I already quoted your synopsis: "This service is "crap."

Duplicitous brokers who feel the need to denigrate tools that empower transparent ones are best left in the Mid Atlantic, as far as I'm concerned. I eagerly await your rebuttal (assuming rock-throwing and name-calling, which I'm sure will include a reference to my "stupid" name as well. With that I'll recuse myself, since I "simply don't have a clue."

Posted by Travis Stecklein almost 11 years ago

I'm fairly new to this thread but it seems to me that the guys at RateWindow are grasping at straws because they realize that Ratespeed is a much better product.  Why would you be on a thread about Ratespeed promoting your RateWindow product if you weren't worried about the potential of Ratespeed.  I read Jeff's www.thexbroker.com blog and I know he was instramental in the development of RateWindow.  It's safe to assume that his new venture Ratespeed is a more innovative and transparent tool.  I am sure you won't see Jeff C. on a thread about RateWindow promoting Ratespeed.  As a former mortgage broker, I can see why brokers are fearing this product though.

Posted by Ryan Smith almost 11 years ago

To Mid Atlantic :

Beside of the unsuccessfully attacking sentences in your comments, masterfully answered by Travis Stecklein ( congratulation Mr. Travis, what a great  touchdown !), I can see, you are asking if product like Ratespeed is needed in this industry. The answer is obvious. IT IS needed, otherwise guys like you would not be asking this question ! You stating: " this service is crap". Well if it takes crap to expose the croocks and reward the honest ( not necessary the cheapest, capiche?), then I say put the crap out there !

 To Robert Craig :

You offer RateWindow for free. I can see why. But believe or not , there are still true professionals out there, who would rather pay for valuable and efficient tool, than use for free a product (originally Jeffs idea anyway), which Jeff himself so masterfully outdone. ( This time congratulation for Mr. Ryan Smith for a great touch down in his comment)

 

Posted by Tom Blind almost 11 years ago

I think everything constructive that needs to be stated here has been said at some point by all parties.  The last thing I want to see is a deteriorating comment thread that takes away from the core of the post and the valuable business proposition behind it (IMO of course).

I'm a notorious debater who at times will 'fan the flames', so my hope is to throw some cold water on the rising heat and allow the attention to flow back to its proper place: a tool for the mortgage professional to efficiently deliver comprehensive pristine and vital rate/pricing information to the consumer and real estate professional.  

Regardless, I do not condone personal attacks on anyone.  RateWindow is a fine product, while it is similar to RateSpeed, its also distinctly different.  I happen to know Matt Dunlap their main developer and he is a very bright guy.  Mark Warner (RealEspace co-founder and CEO) is of the highest character and one of the nicest people one could ever hope to meet (he's very smart too).

Couple of final disclosures on my behalf:

A mortgage professional has the right to charge whatever fee they choose to.  It's not easy work and a good professionals value shouldn't be diminished, that is far from my intent.  Almost without exception, mortgage professionals will agree that they waste alot of time tending to 'shoppers'...RateSpeed was designed to allow the shoppers to shop, and the buyers to contact the mortgage professional who has effectively represented that they are upfront, honest and transparent in their practices.  I'm not saying anyone who doesnt use RateSpeed does not practice business accordingly, but anyone who does makes it very evident they do. Its like a good housekeeping seal of approval.

Consumers have the right to see exactly what rates and pricing their financial, credit and property risk based scenario qualifies for.  While many mortgage pros uphold the highest degrees of integrity and ethics and 'do' business this way, unfortunately there are still many who do not and they spoil it for the rest of the bunch.  RateSpeed is one way a mortgage pro can clearly differentiate themselves in the eyes of the ever enlightened and discerning consumer and appeal to them as well.  

RateSpeed as a company configures a mortgage professionals individual wholesale and/or correspondent rate and pricing feeds (Conforming, Alt-A and Sub-Prime, FHA should be ready by this Friday) into an application that is displayed on their websites (as a 'widget').  We maintain that the accuracy and integrity of that information remains pure, for the consumers to trust and the mortgage professional to tout.  We can do this because we are a completely objective 3rd party who has no interest in originating loans or selling leads.  RateSpeed is akin to a super accurate IDX feed for real estate agents, simply redisplaying a mortgage pros inventory...thats it.

RateSpeed is not an end-all cure-all application that can answer every question and nuance for all consumer situations, that is for the qualified mortgage professional to tend to and address.  RateSpeed is designed to deliver high quality consumers who are ready to take 'the next step' directly with the qualified mortgage professional running the application.

I appreciate everyone who took the time to make thoughtful comments and ask solid questions.  If anyone...mortgage or real estate professional, or consumer...would like to contact me and discuss questions, comments, concerns or just wants to vent, my email is jeff@thexbroker.com, my phone number is 336-215-8055.  If you spend 15 minutes on the phone with me, I'm confident that you will come away from the call with a better understanding and appreciation for what RateSpeed (and I) am all about.

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

@Travis Steckelin: Bravo. You are a moron. Here's the deal. There are no accusations here, only facts.

First fact is you really do not have a clue, my position is simple. See it, don't just believe it.

Ratespeed IS Crap. It does not work. It leaves out risk-based pricing and has no way of accurately portraying any rate scenario based soley upon the information that it is requesting. Right now, any and all loans would need to be run through D/U in order to give the true risk and therefore rate.

For FHA loans, it would never work and would be considered discriminatory if the consumer were asked for thier FICO score. See Jeff, now you are screwing around with the dreams of someone trying to purchase thier first home and ratespeed telling then they don't qualify. real nice, why don't you kick a homelss person while you're at it.

Based on the website, clearly no D/U parameters are set....besides, then the site could never be free to the consumer since FNMA will charge for the findings. So who pays for it? Rhetorical Question no need to answer it genius!

Not to mention all of the FNMA revisions in 7.0 which identify certain market areas as "declining markets" thus reducing the LTV a minimum of 5-10% based on rating. Hey, But I'm sure ratespeed and Jeff has taken all that in consideration and through the magic of HTML..found a way to account for that, right?  VERY WRONG. Before I lose you in all this pertinent information, let me break it down for those who comprehend on the 5th grade level.

Rate equals Risk. That's right! Interest rate will be determined by the risk factors to an Investor, so to quote based on LTV, DTI and FICO is meaningless. FNMA FICO adjustors are not being used on ratespeed..that's for certain. So for example, ratespeed tells the client they "qualify" for 6%, but the FICO, purpose of the loan dictate an actual "transparent" rate of 6.875% (with NO YSP)....great job!...excellent technology! Does that help bolster creditibility for the broker? Ummmm, no it does not.

Not to mention it (ratespeed) clearly violates any lender agreement to conceal their wholesale information from the public. Is it just me, or is everyone here missing the point? (AGAIN!) You CANNOT reproduce private info without consent. Period. hate me all you want for saying it, but it's the truth at it's very core. The fact that Jeff takes this info and attempts (albeit very poorly) to reproduce it on a pay website will be the subject of several lawsuits. The only catch to that is...it's a matter of catching him, which is why he won't (or can't) devuldge the names of the banks who offer those rates. You see, as a Broker...you aren't the servicer of the loan....and so enters the hypocracy....Jeff isn't being all that transparent either.

Why not give the name(s) of the Bank? Surely the consumer would want to know that. What happened "Mr. transparency"?, is that a bit to much information for the consumer? Guess that makes him a hypocrite. And why not share that info...most people want to know hwo will be getting some of those mortgage payments.

I know, I'd like to know..... so I can rat you out to that particular investor. And hey, what's with the "underground, how did you find us, but since you did..check out the info I'm not suppoused to be sharing with the world" theme? It looks as as shady as it operates.

Which is like I said ...CRAP.

Anyways, it was nice hearing from a big time real estate investor and all of your expertise.

Now that I know that most of your expertise involves prepubescent boys.

(Whoa there! your words, not mine...but I'm not here judging you, whatever you are into is your biz.)

 

@ Jeff

Buddy, you are quite the salesman. I have to give you credit for sticking it out and really believing the crap you promote. Read Regulation X & RESPA...sure thing. I'll check out Reg-Z while I'm at it. Oh, about the "illegal kickback" thing, I'm pretty sure that was never passed, so nice try. YSP is still very legal.

The idea that you (and I and everyone else here) keeps going on about your site like it's going to be the next "Google" is laughable. For those retards who believe this is a "great tool", you are right and so are they (tools).

 I really love how the consumer is to trust you and your website and not the Broker...that's a real nice touch. Hab eyou taken into consideration that if someone di dactually use the site (Broker) they can choose to place only the rates they wanted the customer to see? Which may be a "padded" correspondent rate sheet? So it's "transaparent" all uo to the part that the rate reflects higher pricing with YSP built right in. (of course you did, that's why your site is soo great!...)

Please enjoy your 15 mins and I hope all of your clientle become as much of a sucess story selling loans with this "tool" as (you)"Broker-X" has....(who by the way doesn't do that anymore, because he plain old "stunk at it.") ..err, I mean it would be a conflict of interest?

By all means, everyone hitch your dreams on this star.

 

@ Tom Blind

Are you kidding me? Your last name BLIND says it all for me. "What a touchdown"? C'mon..aren't you late for a Star Wars convention or something? Please send Jeff all of the money you set aside for the Nintendo Wii and your Hobbit collectibles.

 

@ Everyone Else: Please try Ratespeed for yourselfs. The information did not match ANY Wholesale Rate sheet (we compared 5) Countrywide, Citimortgage, Flagstar, Gateway and IndyMac....NOT Even close. Those are Real Banks, Real rates, in real time..that did not even come REAL close to what ratespeed farted out. See Jeff, I can say which Banks they are...why not you?

Not sure how that can be considered "helpful" to the consumer....but hey, Jeff needs the money..so please by all means sign up for his service. Also, he is a genius, so do everything he says and follow all his advice.

Then when you are competing for the business against me and you suddenly realize you've given your client the incorrect ratespeed rate...'nuff said?

Are there going to enough website businesses left for all of you to start one of your own?

 

 

Posted by David Barris (Mid Atlantic Capital) almost 11 years ago

@ Mid Atlantic

Bro, did your mom cheat you out of a nipple during feeding sessions? For someone who purports (desperately) to have a moducoum of intellect regading the sector, I would reccomend a precaution to limit the amount of venom you spew. In order for readers to focus on what substance you might offer, rather than what an a-hole you are - dial down the steroids an hour before you write, or have your wife remove your maxi-pad before toxic shock syndrome sets in.

It sounds to me that you are a typical hater. Someone that is an average player in a sub average market, where a disruptive paradigm shift is about to send you on an elevator ride into the Divine Comedy.

This is the best yet...

"what I don't support is your need to use a "scapegoat" (transparent dislcosure ) to promote your own personal gain."

Uh, if that were true, and let's say it is, cheers to Jeff for burying you while sipping Martinis in Aspen - welcome to capitalism, free speech and free trade. If you don't like his product or his opinions, you're free to compete with FakeSpeed - you're own version designed to help rid consumers of any confidence they have left in your service. 

But you didn't have a hand it that. It was the big bad banks and Wall Street.  You're just a service oriented, innocent bystander trying to make a living.  You remind me of the travel agent of 15 years ago.  The only difference is that they had a valid argument for service.  MId A... you're not booking a leisure holiday at the Four Seasons with rose pedals. You're pushing paper as a middle man for an automated algorithmic pricing index that requires a monkey to operate.  Well, that monkey just came to town, and it appears to be RateSpeed. Won't you look funny next to him turning the knobs in a diaper!

Posted by Brian Zalman almost 11 years ago

The only parts of your comment ill bother answering, is that RateSpeed is set to configure with all the lenders you mentioned and that its been verified by multiple other (well respected) mo-pros that the info is highly accurate.  So yes please do check it out.  FHA guideline programs and rates will be updated by Friday.

The rest of your mindless rant speaks for itself, and I find it highly entertaining (as do many others)...which is why I allow you to keep running your mouth.     

If you were of a slightly more resourceful individual, you could've gone to ratespeed.com/blog and find out who our lender stable contains and a bunch of other info.

Whats the 'magic of HTML'?

Not sure what you're compensating for with the flamboyant banter, but I've got a real good idea...

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Mid-Atlantic:  If you want to be a beta tester, all you have to do is ask :)

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

OK, last thing Mid Atlantic...I've got a theory about why you are here, and why you just joined Active Rain to comment on this post.

A Realtor called you, probably one you've worked with and asked you to check out this post and RateSpeed in particular.  That real estate professional probably wanted to know if what I was saying on my blogs was true, if RateSpeed was accurate and then probably questioned why you never explained that this is how the mortgage industry worked to them (in this detail anyway).  I bet you never properly explained YSP to them and its intended use.  This put you in some awkward position, uhhh'ing your way through the conversation, so you felt the need to come here and attempt to completely rip up what is a sound, valuable concept, service and business...

I find this to be a common circumstance when a mortgage professional like yourself goes completely off the richter.  Social networks...dont you love em?

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Mid Atlantic

Beside the fact I already wasted my money ( saved for my sons' nintendo) on a croock like yourself at the time I re-fi my house, that was 3 years ago, I would happily paid for Ratespeed then. At least I would have some "nickels" left to go and see Star Wars. I don't repeat the same mistake twice, so I am not going to waste my valuable time and go back to the paperwork to see, if by any chance the name of the brokerage was Mid Atlantic Capital.

I deal with guys like you everysince I earned my first dollar. They all laugh at my name until they wake up and find out , that the Blind has very little to do with an eyesight. Usually it is too late for them.

I went to Ratespeed website way before I entered this entertaining debate and I can say all the info Jeff is saying is there.

Why don't you ask Jeff to be a beta tester, he will let you test it for free, just because of the jokes you are telling to audience at his post, then you may understand what is this tool really about. Since your ignorance does not permit you to understand what has Jeff stated all over again and again. 

Posted by Tom Blind almost 11 years ago

Jeff,

A question I have is how do you put up with some of the most inane posts I have ever read?  There is obviously nothing inherently wrong with what you are doing but some of the typical unethical, immoral, uneducated and clueless people who operate within this bastardized industry seem to think differently.  Reading their semi-literate comments just reinforces why this entire business needs a major overhaul.

From my viewpoint, RateSpeed will provide a piece of the puzzle needed by consumers to aid them in their home loan shopping quest.  It will not be an end all, nor will it guarantee that borrowers will eventually end up with the loan and terms they deserve and qualify for.  It can, however, provide a starting point to initiate their search before making a final decision.

From the many posts I have read of yours, I firmly believe your intent is honorable as well as your integrity and vision.  It is just unfortunate that for you to succeed, you will have to deal with many of the same individuals that have made the mortgage industry the snake pit that it is.

Jim Gilly (retired CFP)

 

Posted by Jim Gilly almost 11 years ago

I am getting ready to check this out. It sounds very interesting. Hope this goes well, for you & the customers.

Posted by Mindy Pencil (Real Living Darby Creek) almost 11 years ago

I'm not even a member yet of Active Rain, but I heard about Ratespeed, and found my way here. I've been reading the posts - whoa.  Allthough I am not qualified to debate here, I must say, that from a general perspective, I like the idea of any effeciency tool that puts the power into the end users hand. Simply: I would rather know the rates I am being quoted are unaltered, rather than hope that I'm dealing with someone ethical. I'll trust technology over man's good intentions any day.

 

Posted by Anonymous almost 11 years ago

sorry, that last post was me. I guess I'm not much of a blogger either ;-)

Posted by Bill Markinson almost 11 years ago

As I sit and ponder, I got thinking about the consumers who have had a shakey creidt history It would be great to see a company explain about pulling scores & doing there research to help buyers rise above there battles to overcome the ruff times. Educating todays consumers is such a needed area. To many consumers are afraid to sit face to face and be denied due to pride. So , they will go online and search until they realize hope is gone. Then it is to late there scores are so much worse.

 It would be GREAT to see an explaination to these type of consumers before the run info and start there quest!

Posted by Mindy Pencil (Real Living Darby Creek) almost 11 years ago

@ Tom Blind: (and all others):

Biggest problem I guess I have on this Blog is my creditibilty then, which is both fine and expected (really). The "idea" that I cannot show or shed some light on a product, which is not fully operational as yet is what I read in the responses to my posts. Some people whould agree with me, but those persons would need to be active in the mortgage industry. I see that most people woh disagree with what I have to say are not. I also should watch what I say for fear of being deleted...(like some other posters have been)

The defense that most offer to my opposition is the fact that they or someone they know has been "ripped off" by a mortgage broker. That's both unfair and a big part of Jeff's intent to promulgate that fear among the people he's trying to get to sell his site to. I understand that.

Why is so hard to believe that there are active, successful and ethical people in my indusrty acting on the clients behalf? My biggest problem is that Jeff does nothing to promote that, only to say that the entire mortageg industry is in need of reform. If that is indeed true, what happens to the guy who did it right all along? I find this whole blog and subsequent marketing ploy to be hypocritical in the sense that even Mr. Corbett..who starting out oringinating mortgages, claims to have "changed" his own office to some sort of electronically charged self proclaimed revoultion of mortgage transparancy.  Exactly what did he change from?

After the refi-boom, when it was quite easy to sell loans - EVERYBODY needed to change the way they did business, in order to survive or they would disappear. Fortunatley many of the inexperienced people who "bandwagoned" their way in- got forced out.

Tom,  If you were ripped off, that's unfortunate...but how can you truly say that you were?

I am not disputing it, only questioning why you think you were? There must have been dislcosures and GFEs and TILs and Broker agreements, etc.,. not to mention a Mortgage Note..all of which would have explained everything and you would have had to sign.

If your position is that you were ripped off 3 years ago.....are you subscribing to the theory that everyone should be allowed to "see" what they qualify for? That's a really strange part of this equation, b/c it's Jeff's posiiton that customer can "qualify" for the best price. What would be your claim, that a mortgage broker didn;t give you a par rate and made a profit on you?

There's no gun being drawn here......you weren't forced to take the loan right? Did you shop it to several other brokers or your local bank? Was everyone you encountered the same as far as fees....it's not important really, b/c I already sort of know what went on. It's actuall typical.

After the transaction closes, someone tells you that they could have done much better or maybe it was Jeff, when he had his mortgage position still. That's when you decied you got ripped off...but when the deal was going down, you signed on the dotted lines.

As I point out over and over, forget about the legalility of the information exchange...since when does a consumer ever have that "right" to get everything at wholesale prices?

I'm all for it, b/c bread, gas, credit card interest would all be much cheaper for me too.. Even in Jeff's perfect world, what happens to those who "don't qualify" for the best rates? They get punished, "Hey, you guys pay more...you are not worthy." Or even better, you "qualify" according to Jeff and because of all the lowered appraised values, you cannot get a loan.

Right now, I'm here to tell everyone that "transparency" is not the issue. That's where everyone misses the point. Except of course Jeff (b/c he's selling you) and the rest of you who wnat to believe it somuch...you won't accept the logic and reason behind why it's unethical, unprofessional and borderline inoperatable.

Customers will get the illusion that that rate will exist b.c they "trust" the transparancy idea. When the deal is run through D/U (direct underwirting) and suddenly they are EA Level II and you must explain there's an additonal 1.5% that gets automatically added to the rate....where's the trust go?

They will think the broker is lying and refer back to ratepseed.com. Then another guy comes along and tells them the exact same thing, except now, he knows that this person really has no options (like they intially thought) and may try to exploit that. Good guy loses biz to Bad guy, Bad Guy makes more moeny, client loses.

I guess what I'm saying here is that the idea, which may be a "brainstorm" is not practical. In the days of "BROKERBUDDY"...who still may exist, they allowed brokers to search lender programs and rates by the same criteria that Jeff uses...but the difference was that the site was for the exclusive use of the mortgage professional and not the consumer. We adopted BROKRBUDDY for ease of use, but even then...discovered many inconsistencies between prgram and rates. The funny thing is, BROKERBUDDY was ALLOWED to provide those feeds and they were STILL wrong over 50% of the time.

The other piece of the pie is the wholesale account rep. which can mark the rate sheets for a particular investor before it's even issued. Like I said, transparancy is easier said than done.

I realise that most of the posters here do not understand clearly what it takes to get a loan approved and Jeff is missing alot of that info on his webpage. Instead he rants there about "how mortgage people make thier money by bascially ripping you off"..."or the alternative is: you can go through his website".

So sue me for name calling, but it's a valid reaction to all that I 've seen here and on the actual site. Go there! www.ratespeed.com. Caution though: you will NOT be able to verify the rates it gives you unless you can see the name of the investor (Bank), the term lock (how many days), the pricing adjustors (vary per lender), pricing incentives (per state and relationship), the fees the lender charges (above and beyond the broker), and so much more.

If I can have the final word here......If you believe so much in his website, send him your money, love and support. The fact that Jeff is selling among other things "my own creditibilty right back to me" is a joke.

It's really not for me and the majority of active loan officers in the industry. We (the active, knowledgable mortgage professionals) know all too well what really needs to be done and Jeff's only hit on a few key elements.

 Furthermore, through some of these posts...I've been offered to become one of the illustrious 25 Beta testers Jeff is looking for.

Personally, I don't think he can fufill the revisions techincally that need to be made to make Ratespeed a viable product, or would he be willing to listen to any real criticism......so I would decline that offer.

 

Posted by Mid Atlantic Capital almost 11 years ago

@Brain Zalman:

Obvioulsly the "boob" that like so much is Jeff and his website. I can only assume that it's your time of month as well (due to the maxi-pad) reference...and your sheer one-sided opposition complete without any facts.

Well Bill Gates, an automated algorithimic pricing engine is exactly what ratespeed does, is it not?

Oh, but that algorthim doesn't work...which is why I said what I did.

I'm scared to know what Industry you came from, but I'm sure it's some huge multi-million dollar platform (self proclaimed, of course)

...if you knew anything about what I was talking about, you could not argue much of what I am saying.

Instead whatever Jeff tells you, you will just believe.

I'll tell you what Genuis..... when I'm done with the diaper it's all yours.

Hey..wait a sec! Are all these guys "Jeff Corbett"? What's to stop him from creating a bunch of active rain accts and posting under different names? Hmm, I wonder....but hey just another shadow of doubt for everyone to enjoy.

Bon appetit.

Posted by Mid Atlantic Capital almost 11 years ago

To Mid Atlantic Capital...

(In my best Chris Farley impression from Tommy Boy when the deer just destroyed David Spade's convertible) "That was awesome!"

I do feel conflicted and disappointed though for the readers from AR that are not on the mortgage side of things because up until your last post, it was still being spun as though us "Mo-Pro's" all were going to get "found out" and that never was the issue.

At a site like RateSpeed, I truly feel it would just cause more disappointment and frustration for the client then building trust. Not because we are going to "sneak in fees", but like you said with things like risked-based pricing, low appraised values, spouses having a lower credit score, being aware they locked too soon and there were better rates the day of closing, etc.

Just WAY too many variables and intangibles the client would be misled to believe and I could say with certainty more times then not they would be disappointed as to what they could really lock in at. So you could be completely honest, a true professional and all this would do is cause doubt needlessly.

Posted by Travis Neliton, Travis Neliton NMLS 283894 (Caliber Home Loans CHL NMLS# 15622) almost 11 years ago

@MA "Furthermore, through some of these posts...I've been offered to become one of the illustrious 25 Beta testers Jeff is looking for."

"Personally, I don't think he can fufill the revisions techincally that need to be made to make Ratespeed a viable product, or would he be willing to listen to any real criticism......so I would decline that offer."

outside of my tongue in cheek 'you just have to ask' statement above, I dont see where you've been offered to become one of the 'illustrious' 25 beta testers..?

A main purpose of our beta group is to aggregate feedback and constructive criticism to evolve the application for the better...straight from the mortgage pros using it.  I don't listen to naysayers much, never have and hope your looong explanations have satisfied the party that pointed you to this thread. 

Anything else I could say about the above, I've alread said somewhere above....

@Jim Gilly...its a strange form of entertainment for me :) and keeps me super motivated.  

@Mindy  Thats a great suggestion.  We are working on refining the educational experience involved with the application and credit is an important aspect to cover.

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

To Mid Atlantic Capital:

Its hard to believe someone who has no idea how to debate.  Not only do you sound like you have a fifth grade education, but you make accusations without backing them up.

"...if you knew anything about what I was talking about, you could not argue much of what I am saying."  YOU NEVER EXPLAIN THIS!!!!  You can't just say "trust me, if you only know what I know" and expect people to believe you.  This is how we got into this mortgage crisis, by trusting greedy Mortgage Brokers. 

I can tell by your tone that you are someone who will be greatly effected by RateSpeed.  Otherwise, you would blow this off as another futile attempt to save the Mortgage industry. 

You do realize that all you are doing is helping RateSpeed out by your outlandish rants? 

Jeff, I have no idea how you can bite your tongue when someone so clueless makes assertions about your product.  I commend you.

Posted by Ryan Smith almost 11 years ago

@ Mid Atlantic

Beating you up anymore would be an insult to anyone at this point. However, I will once again point out how mismanaged your brain is.

"Well Bill Gates, an automated algorithimic pricing engine is exactly what ratespeed does, is it not?"

That's what I said it was dummy, reread.

"I'm scared to know what Industry you came from, but I'm sure it's some huge multi-million dollar platform (self proclaimed, of course)"

The fact that you classify "big industry" in the millions only proves what a hillbilly you must be - LOL. I would come out and actually verify who I am, but I think I'll wait a bit longer and really embarras you. 

The reason you have no credibility bonehead, is because you have no AR juice here, one sorry post, I think - and this is the most fame you've ever probably leveraged off of someone else's controversy.

If everyone is so enamered by Jeff and his tool, I guess he did something right. If the perception of being non transparent paints all you Mo-Pro's as generalized toads, and that rakes in the profits - welcome to the propanganda game - the government has been doing it for centuries. The generic public does in fact buy "the spin," lucky for us cigarette manufacturers (I'll bet you smoke), and despite what's good for us all in the end (says who), some win and some lose. Again, this is a free market. Why don't you compete against the tyrany of RateSpeed and do something other than flap your gums.

Why would Jeff be a bunch of people here? It appears that his profile and capacity warrent manners, which he seems to have.

I guess one more beating was in order. It's not really productive, but oh well.

 

Posted by Brian Zalman almost 11 years ago

@ Mid Atlantic  The more you write, the less you actually say.

"which is why he won't (or can't) devuldge the names of the banks who offer those rates. You see, as a Broker...you aren't the servicer of the loan....and so enters the hypocracy....Jeff isn't being all that transparent either. Why not give the name(s) of the Bank? Surely the consumer would want to know that. What happened "Mr. transparency"?, is that a bit to much information for the consumer? Guess that makes him a hypocrite. And why not share that info...most people want to know hwo will be getting some of those mortgage payments." Bravo, another brilliant retort buddy. Once again displaying that your level of due diligence is non-existant. Not only has Jeff posted all the lenders, but it's been mentioned repeatedly throughout this thread that you've taken hostage.

"Not to mention it (ratespeed) clearly violates any lender agreement to conceal their wholesale information from the public." You keep circling back to this belabored point. Why don't you give everyone some actual data to back up your claims? Why don't you cite some specific legislation that outlaws the broker from displaying to the consumer what their rates are? Have you ever thought about using fact rather than fiction?

And your other big argument: "It leaves out risk-based pricing and has no way of accurately portraying any rate scenario based soley upon the information that it is requesting." "Hab eyou taken into consideration that if someone di dactually use the site (Broker) they can choose to place only the rates they wanted the customer to see? Which may be a "padded" correspondent rate sheet?"

Again you've failed to do your homework (which must include spelling class). So your other position is that the information is not accurate? It's been said over and over that RateSpeed simply redisplays your existing wholesale feeds to the consumer, and strips you of your ability to manipulate them.  Is that clear enough for you? I guess it will only be as accurate as your corresponding lender feeds will allow. What other underwriting criteria (besides the 19 pieces of credit & risk data) do you need to close a loan? Do you need my social and my phone number, so that you can bother me at dinnertime? I've had all the Mid Atlantic that I can handle on this blog.

I can't even shoot holes in a stance that is completely devoid of logic. You're all talk and no substance. You represent exactly what is wrong with your industry, and it's unfortunate that you're the lone representative on this thread. At least there were some intelligent comments from others if I scroll to the top.Your ability to seize the clever comments of others and spew them back completely stripped of all meaning is second to none though. I do have to applaud your resilience - I've never seen someone take so many beatdowns and keep flapping their gums.

Posted by Travis Stecklein almost 11 years ago

Jeff,

How soon before you expect to have the site fully operational where consumers can start getting actual quotes from those participating in your program? 

Will your site provide the ability to click on a state and see a list of the brokers/lenders in the program serving that area with a link to their website as an option?

Posted by Jim Gilly almost 11 years ago

 

Interesting and compelling. (The RateSpeed site.)

I can tell you first-off, its big bold black and white motif (RateSpeed splash page/home page)

needs a more appealing color motif; the black x white thing is far too pirate-flag like and

tends to put people off rather quickly. Solution: slightly dark blue x white (letters) would

solve it. It's a web-fact that Microsoft or eBay blue-type color formats are more successful with

the public, and that black is uninspired, self-limiting and inherently puts people off.

Apart from that, you've got great concept, to-the-point; both timely and necessary.

To gain more advocates to your Cause however, Make It More Friendly!

Posted by David Keller almost 11 years ago

Jim...July 15 is our target date...

David...Thx for the feedback, it is well received!  The site will undergo a series of evolutions as we begin to enter the market.  We began with a 'compelling' consumer centric theme but will graduate to more friendly digs very soon.  Marketing the benefits of the application to consumers, real estate pros and mortgage professionals with messaging that speaks to each of their respective needs is quite a task and a fine line to walk. Fortunately the application stands to benefit all parties who understand what RateSpeed can do for them personally.  IMO this can be a win-win-win for everyone.

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Whoa! Just got done reading through all of the comments (we'll most of them). I personally lean towards the views of Mid Atlantic, not withstanding the way he presented his view. I am not one to attack anyone or a business for sticking it out there.

... however, after going to RateSpeed I still don't see the transparency. Maybe Jeff is showing something different to this 25 beta testers. But right now I have no way to verfiy the rates, etc that is returned. The process as of now, might change on July 15 (we'll see and I am hoping it does) as this is no different than mortgagemarvel.com

1) Fill out the loan criteria form. Nothing earth shattering here, but it looks like it was designed for a mortgage professional and not a consumer. There is a reason short-form lead generation sites are so succesfull (think low.com, bills.com, lowermybills.com, etc)

2) Confirm the information I have entered. Again nothing earth shattering here. Might of been a good time to pre-qualify the criteria, tell me what is wrong. Otherwise this is a pointless screen.

3) The results. Now this is where it gets interesting. I am presented with rates yet I don't know who the lender or wholeseller is behind them. When I click "Buy Now" I get some message saying my infomration has been sent... sent to who? As a consumer this is not transparent nor very reassuring. So if I were kicking the tires I would feel mislead... where did my infomration go? albeit just an email that is still my personal information that for all I know has been sold... let's get on the spam train...

Interesting thing about the Lender Stable of ratespeed (http://ratespeed.com/2008/06/13/the-ratespeed-lender-stable/). Now I am not sure how well funded Jeff and RateSpeed is or how many people he has on staff... but I find it really hard to believe that he maintains rates, adjustment and guideline data for 50+ lenders as one person yet has time to solicite for 15 minute phone calls from everyone. I think this is where Jeff owes it to us to be transparent about his business... he does say he is transparent right?...
how is this information entered? Is he using another PPE such as Nylx (much like RateWindow)? Does he have a partnership with a data aggregator? Does he license Nasa supercomputers to crawl the data?

The cost, I saw somewhere that RateSpeed is monthly fee and a setup fee. Whey isn't this information on the Ratespeed website... why must I dig through blog post and comments to get the information important to a potential buyer... if this beta say that on your website or signup form... again don't mislead people.

Posted by Catalyst Mortgage almost 11 years ago

Catalyst...Thx for your professionalism.

Answering your questions in order:

RateSpeed is different than mortgagemarvel in that we do not allow mortgage professionals to augment, manipulate or inflate rates or pricing in a any way.  Last I looked mortgage marvel was simply an advertising platform for mortgage companies to redisplay what rates they see fit and does not include many risk-based pricing factors that go into an accurate rate quote.

The process shall evolve by July 15th.  Since you're apparently in the industry, so you may easily check the results against your wholesale ratesheets to compare pricing.

1) The form (which is far from 'sexy' we're already into 2nd gen UI dev) considers important risk-based pricing factors that go into accurate rate and price quotes...a 'short-form' would yield short sighted answers.

2) Yeah, this will evolve with 2nd gen UI. 

3) Actual wholesale lenders do not appear for consumers for 2 main reasons: 1) We don't want consumers seeing a wholesale price quote from say Countrywide Wholesale then calling Countrywide retail or another broker for that matter.  Since the rates displayed via a mo-pro's individual ratespeed application are configured to their wholesale lenders, only that mortgage professional can deliver the rates shown.  2)  Many wholesale lenders have no retail division.  The RateSpeed licensed mortgage professional receives all the wholesalers information on their side, which they may then disclose to the consumer. 

Right now, the application is just running on ratespeed, so no mortgage professional will be calling anyone.  The mortgage professional who runs ratespeed on theor site will have a custom message stating that they will be contacting the consumer and have their contact info provided. 

Your email was not and will not be sold to anyone, the email goes into a secure server.  The version you are kicking the tires on even lets you put in a fake email address with no validation/confirmation.  In any case no one will receive any spam or unsolicited communication period.

RateSpeed is well funded (we dont have money for wallpaper, but...) I have 6 people on staff and personally have 15 minutes for anyone who would like to discuss RateSpeed.  We have an exclusive partnership with a company called Loan Runner and custom configured archtecture that rivals NASA super computer clusters, since they do crawl gimungus amounts of data using proprietary processes that no other PPE is currently capable of. 

We havent released our final price points yet, as we gather feedback from our client users.  In the footer of the application you will find 'Beta v1.0'.  We're getting ready to update our homesite, this as well as other important information will be more prominently displayed. 

Thanks for your feedback and please keep checking back.

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) almost 11 years ago

Jeff,

I've been reading your blogging since you first hit the etherwave and, right from the start, asked myself "he's from Irvine??!!" My first 4 years in the business were after moving from Washington state to SoCal and going to work for a small regional lender there. It didn't take me long to realize I might have gotten into the wrong business.

Unlike in the realty business, the larger the loan didn't translate into the more effort to close the financing. I couldn't understand why anyone felt the need to ripoff the client by getting 2-4 points on the back. All these young guys around me laughing their asses off at making 4 points on a $450k loan! I went to work for a huge national lender house that screamed about credibility- and found things were no different. I was shocked at meeting with realtors with 15 years in the business who had never had YSP explained to them, who had no idea it could be used for their clients' benefit, and showed them that without the YSP I could qualify their clients for a heck of a lot more home (meaning more commission to them).

Transparency should be industry-wide. I can't believe the bankers aren't required to disclose on the GFE and then they lobby like crazy to make sure brokers do, only to then use it to try to convince the public the brokers are obviously ripping them off because they are getting the YSP!

So, with this new "prequalification Search Engine widget thingy", I feel the need to bow down towards your Mecca in Irvine and light a candle at your altar!

I won't pretend to be enough of a mortgage industry expert to be part of your initial beta-testers. But please count me in on the top of the list of people to adopt it when you are ready to launch it to the world!

In stupefied admiration- Aaron 

 

Posted by Aaron Johnson, Join The Home Team! (Tri City Home Team / The Force Realty) almost 11 years ago

Jeff - Those are some rather brilliant observations you've made there Kiddo!

Posted by Myrl Jeffcoat, Greater Sacramento Real Estate Agent (GreatWest Realty) almost 11 years ago

I am in the mortgage industry, housed in Louisiana.  Whats this going to do for or to me?

Posted by Richard Baggett (AFI Mortgage) over 10 years ago

In a past life I was a mortgage broker and I totally agree with you.  This would eliminate a lot of useless fumbling around and bring some more integrity to the industry.

Posted by Seth Callen (Layered Artwork XChange) over 10 years ago

Maybe I didnt read your site all the way through... A few thoughts:

 

1. Rates are not solely based on Credit score, Income and LTV.  How would people who need help re-structuring tax returns, itemization, depreciation or even those who own multiple business entitites benefit?  Would a Broker deserve to earn more on a loan sifting through 2 years tax returns of an entrepreneur than a loan with a sole borrower with 1 job providing a W2?

2. What about programs that arent on typical rate sheets? Niche products for the borrowers who dont fit in vanilla guidelines?

3. Pricing is also different in different parts of the country...

4. A transparent computer based system wont be able to properly analyze credit reports for red flags OR know when a condo project is not FHA approved or non-warrantable.  Started a new job 14 months ago in a completely different line of work? Client has assets under their mattress? Maybe their bank account has 5 co-signers on it but they still think they can claim 100% of the balance to qualify?

Perhaps this system works for the people who have excellent credit, superfluous income and assets who are prepared to either put 20-30% down or have at least this much in equity, i.e. the Vanilla loans.  But for those that need the personal touch of a Mortgage Professional should ask a friend or Realtor for a referral of a trusted Broker.

 

Michael Wolff

 

Posted by Michael Wolff, Your Total Mortgage Advisor! (Wolff Financial Services) over 10 years ago

Alot of food for thought, I will continue to follow your work.

Posted by Team Honeycutt (Allen Tate) over 10 years ago

Jeff - How is the project going so far. I have been to the web site and it looks good. Keep us in the loop on that.. Thanks..

 

Samuel Stovall

IMN

Ewing, NJ

Posted by Samuel Stovall, No One Does It Better, No One! (Intercounty Mortgage Network/S2K2 Partners NMLS #219374) over 10 years ago

Jeff:

Did you get a mortgage person, company to do this.

If not let me know, I will try to get my company to do it.

Richard

Posted by Richard Stabile, Bergen County New Homes Builder Realtor (Re/Max Real Estate Limited) over 10 years ago

The changes made will not make things more transparent. In fact there are so many loopholes that I believe it will make more problems.

Posted by David Coffman (Exit Realty 1st Choice) about 10 years ago

Great concept, will check it out.  The " mo bro" business needs some clarity and transparency as you say, and this seems to be a good solution.  Even with a little shameless self-promotion, as you say.  great work.

Posted by Charles Fischer, Professional Real Estate Services (Housing Market Realty) about 10 years ago

Great news and I will be sending this link to all of my Mo Pro's.  Thank you for sharing!

Posted by Malisa Spivey, My Opinions are Free and I Freely give them. (Key Real Estate Services & Property Management) about 10 years ago

This has been waaay past interesting! Can't wait to see how it unfolds and eventually how it continues then finally how it ends.

Posted by Sandy Childs, Realtor - Spartanburg, SC (Keller Williams Realty) about 10 years ago

Congratulations on creating such a cool site. Thanks for sharing (plugging) it!

Posted by Melissa Zavala, Broker, Escondido Real Estate, San Diego County (Broadpoint Properties) about 10 years ago

I love the idea of rate speed. The idea of being upfront with everything in the mortgage industry has come. You are at the forefront. Please let me know how I could be involved.

Dan Seider

Newkey Home Mortgage

Posted by Daniel Seider (BTRE Big Trees Real Estate) about 10 years ago

Thanks for acting on your desire to have more mortgage transparancy. Watching the fees come and go during the final days of a transaction has left me wondering at times. And, pre-paids? Hmmm.

Posted by Sara Goss, Realtor - Houston Bay Area, Texas (HatmakerGroup.com GMAC Real Estate) almost 10 years ago

Participate