The XBroker: The Morgage Industry’s Internal Civil War

The Morgage Industry’s Internal Civil War

YSP’s have gradually made their way into the American homeowners conscious, rising from relative obscurity. While this is progress, their use in relation to their intent is still misunderstood, manipulated, and maligned. Although more consumers are now aware that YSP’s are cash rebates Lenders pay for a borrower to accept a higher interest rate than they qualify for…this hasn’t stopped Brokers and Bankers from misusing them as a tool to subjectively and unjustly enrich themselves.

 

Definition.

 Even well educated broker/bankers can’t properly define YSP’s intended purpose per RESPA letter law. As explained in the RESPA Policy Statement, yield spread premiums should be proposed “as a valuable option that permits home buyers to pay some or all of the up front settlement costs over the life of the mortgage through a higher interest rate.”

In reality, YSP’s are shrouded within the complex structure of real estate settlement procedures to principally allow mortgage brokers and bankers the ability to impose higher prices on borrowers for their direct benefit.

 

Disclosure.

Many broker/bankers will disclose YSP’s in a range of fashions, which may appear to protect the borrower, but appearances are deceiving. A prevailing practice among brokers is to enter a range of 0% to 5%, which leaves the broker with complete freedom of action, while providing the borrower with no usable information.

Other brokers won’t disclose YSP’s until closing, misleading borrowers to believe that the suddenly apparent dollar amount on the HUD-1 ‘is a fee paid by the Lender to the broker/banker for ‘delivering the borrower’. Under this explanation, payment of Yield Spread Premiums would run afoul of the first step of HUD’s test of whether YSP’s could be considered illegal kickbacks or rebates.

If the dollar value of YSP’s that end up in the broker/bankers pocket exceeds a fair value for services baseline, the transaction violates HUD’s test. What is this baseline amount? I don’t know…$3000, $5000, $10,000+ ? How could one justify $5000 in additional undisclosed compensation?

Charging broker compensation fees up-front and via improperly disclosed YSP can be viewed as a violation of TILA.

 

Depth.

85-90% of all mortgage transactions contain YSP’s.

In almost all cases, they are never presented as an option, according to true definition.

They represent the largest source of compensation for mortgage brokers.

An overwhelming majority of borrowers do not need YSP’s to pay up-front settlement costs but are never offered otherwise.

 

 

‘This abusive form of price discrimination substantially increases the overall costs to borrowers, imposing a “hidden tax” on home ownership. Unfortunately, individuals who are less educated and less sophisticated about financial matters end up overpaying the most. The misuse of yield spread premiums affects prime borrowers, FHA borrowers, VA borrowers’**…all the way down the line. Even for those with the best credit, yield spread premiums can cost many thousands of dollars in increased financing costs.

 

The oft-maligned broker segment of the mortgage origination industry bears the brunt of these facts, while bankers can maneuver with perceived impunity, since they ‘are not required’ to disclose YSP. It would be interesting to see bankers held to black letter law and operate under more transparent conditions…rather it would be interesting to see how quickly they changed their business practices. Many in the industry don’t believe it’s anyone’s business what they make via YSP incentives. Their definition states otherwise. YSP’s belong to the borrower, not the 3rd party service provider. 

 

The mortgage industry as a whole is a baseball toss away from moving to an overall transparent policy platform, via legislation, technology, or both. My $.02 says technology starts it and the legislators play pile on. At the end of the day, to not disclose has been rendered deceptive and predatory…words that have a clearly deleterious effect on doing business, whether they are legally reprimanded or not. If you think about it…to speak out against transparency in this marketplace is not the type of opinion consumers or legislators will come to appreciate.

 

The opening salvos have begun. There will be momentous battles with new weapons and strategies, but like most wars, no one comes out the clear winner, but the landscape will be changed forever.

 

 

 

 
**Proper Thanks to:

Kickbacks or Compensation: The Case of Yield Spread Premiums

By Howell E. Jackson* and Jeremy Berry**

For U.S. Senate Committee on Banking Housing and Urban Affairs.

Comment balloon 129 commentsJeff Corbett • November 09 2006 03:28PM

Comments

Jeff I am not an expert on mortgages but YSPs just do not sound right at all. So if I'm understanding this right, YSP were initially designed for the borrower to be able to finance some of the mortgage fees, by agreeing to a higher rate and therefore giving the lender additional funds to rebate to the 3rd party as compensation for fees they did not collect in the form of closing cost to the buyer. Thus lowering the borrowers cash to close Is that right so far?

BUT what has happened over time is that the borrower is not even given the choice and the LOs are selling them on their low fees while at the same time placing them on a higher rate and making their money on the YSPs. Am I getting this right?

Now if this is true, how in the world can this be a legal thing to do? I could understand if it was disclosed but I know it's not in most cases. So what does the consumer do about this?

Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago
Bryant...I would like to leave the floor open for other brokers and bankers to comment before I weigh back in ;). You're reading correct, ill say that much for now....
Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
Good idea Jeff. Just wanted to make sure I was on the right track. Hey I just sell houses, this stuff is out of my realm of expertise. But I am a consumer on the mortgage side and need to know.
Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago
It's interesting that the biggest problem in the industry right now seem to be Option ARMs adjusting and forcing people, at least in my area, into Foreclosure. These loans offered the highest rebates. Ten years ago, the City of Oakland, CA passed their own Predatory lending lawsbecause folks were being ripped. Then all the Sub-prime lenders pulled out leaving a vacuum for many marginal borrowers in Oakland. Oversite is needed. Too much can hurt the consumer.
Posted by David Love, CRS,GRI,SRES,CDPE (David Alan Love, Realtors) over 12 years ago

Jeff,

I will try to remember to come back and respond better tomorrow as I am too tired to go into length right now.  I will point out one thing.

As you already know, Upfront Mortgage Brokers, like myself, will agree on a fee at the beginning and explain that that fee can be paid directly, through YSP, or a combination. 

I do keep the GFE as a range in my original disclosures, but that is because at the time the rate is usually not locked (depends on the market and the borrower).  I have no real choice there, except to redisclose when the lock is in place.  Usually, when the loan is locked, I call or email the YSP.

When the borrower closes, they will already have known how the "split" is and what to look for on the HUD-1 to see that the total equals the agreed upon amount.

This is the best way to operate in my opinion.  I hope I made sense.

Posted by Robert D. Ashby, Turning Visions into Photographs (and Videos) (Visual Approach Aerial Photography (Visual Approach Photography)) over 12 years ago

Jeff....  there are some good points, but some that I will have to disagree on.

Opinion is always good. And we talk about educating the average consumer and even sometimes the lender. Much of this bog is your opinion and doesn't give insight to what some of the good lenders do or even give examples how how one might perceive your explanations.

Example:  Lender A charges 2.5 pts on the front of a $300,000 mortgage and receives 2 pts as a YSP. Okay... this would be what you are talking about. This would equat to $7,500 on the front end and $6,000 on the backend. For a grand total of $13,500. That would seem high. Before I get to the next example though, just a question for Bryant Tutas and other realtors. Isn't there a 6% commission do to the realtors that would be a total of $18,000? And don't you make usually 3% of that which would be $9,000? Just food for thought. Can't we lenders say that we do as much work.... and that we actually have more hands on the loan that the costs could be up there? Loan officer, processor, closer, and underwriter.  And sometimes more peoples hand in the transactions.

Now..... Lender B. Charges zero points on a $300,000 loan amount. But still gets 2 pts as a YSP, that would equat to $6,000. And from reading Jeff's blog, that would even be too much. But if I did a refinance, showed the client how to not only save money monthly, but how to incorporate some of this savings into some return plans that could net him $50,000 in 8 to 10 years. And.... still reduce his principal in 5 years that would be $5,000 lower than what he or she currently has. Wouldn't my $6,000 fee be greatly acceptable as opposed to you straight fee model that you wrote about once before....trying to make it from $3,000 to $2,000 per loan. Does a mechanic charge you a flat fee and then when he runs into problems, has to order more parts, etc etc...have to charge you more? 

I think what we have here is a misleading perception. NOT ALL brokers & bankers operate the way that Jeff describes in this blog. And yes, you didn't say all....you didn't really say most, but when you read this twice, it does make one think that you are talking about most. Is there abuse out there?  YES.... will we be able to ever control all of this?  Probably not.

Each state has gone ahead and made some of their rules and laws a little stricter. Example. New Jersey.  They have made a threshold of 4.5% for all lenders to not exceed this. Meaning.... on a $100,000 loan, you can't have more than $4,500 in total charges. Now... this can be confusing, but this is to include all points charged by the lender, any junks fees charged by the lender (aka. commitment fee, processor fee, warehouse fee, etc etc), and lawyers fee and or title closing fee. Yes.... 3rd party fees are included in this threshold that Jeff fails to point out. Now I have to include in this formual other 3rd party fees. Which could reduce my total profit. So... this total of 4.5% in NJ uses both upfront fees and the YSP into the calculation.  Now, I will say this though, Bankers don't show YSP, therefore don't count this against the 4.5% threshold. But now examples are shown here that might make things a little clearer and not just general comments.

I am sorry that this is long, but I wanted to point out 2 more things that I read from Jeff in here.  Jeff Corbet wrote: "85-90% of all mortgage transactions contain YSP's." Where did this come from or is this an opinion based on your knowledge?  Just curious. 2nd...Jeff Corbet wrote: "The mortgage industry as a whole is a baseball toss away from moving to an overall transparent policy platform, via legislation, technology, or both. My $.02 says technology starts it and the legislators play pile on." How can technology start something like this when the lenders won't do a thing until state or federal cracks down and changes the law? Do you think some software company is going to make this change?  Maybe a Countrywide or Wells Fargo will rewrite their own software just to be ahead of the game. But in all honesty, how far does one have to cut their price when there is sometimes large overhead. Just an FYI thrown out there.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

I have just one tidbit of information that was totally overlooked.  Correspondent lenders funding a deal in their own name with the line of credit do not even have to disclose YSP, ever (this includes the HUD-1).  Is this wrong?  Should they not also have to disclose the YSP that they make when they sell the loan to the lender that they have already placed it with?

Jeff and Jeff - You both make excellent points.  I believe that disclosure is the best policy.  As for the misuse that Jeff C talks about, who is more to blame... brokers or lenders?  Afterall, it is the lenders that solicit the brokers on their programs and how much YSP one can make by using them.  I believe that if one is ever going to try to control this situation, they will have to start with the lenders, not the brokers

Posted by Jason Price (Mortgage Financial Group, Inc) over 12 years ago

YSP is a very good tool as it allows us to tailor a loan to a customer's financial needs.

I could go on forever but the current system works quite well when disclosed properly.  85-90% of mortgage SHOULD contain YSP as it is a LESS costly mortgage considering the average hold time (3-4 years).

I'm in favor of transparency and completely against pricing collusion.

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago
I disagree As long as the YSP is diclosed and the customer is getting a good deal there is nothing wrong with it. We all of have families to feed and loan officers who have been in the business for a long time such as myself DONT work for free. If you want to do business for free then good luck to you.
Posted by Eddy Martinez (Nationwide Funding Group) over 12 years ago

Ahhh good, good. 

First off I would like to say that what I have written here is more than personal opinion, much of it was derived directly from the source I cited at the bottom of the post, as well as from protracted conversation and direct involvement with settling actual lawsuits in multiple states district court systems, both class action and individual.  

The post is a summary 'State of the Union' addressing...if the facts within the post apply to you, beware...if they don't, you are ahead of the curve.  Via Active Rain and the MO of a great majority of it's members, I would suspect that many do not intentionally fall within the classification of 'Material Misrepresentation', 'Unjust Enrichment', 'Unfair value for services'.  However, even the best of breed of brokers will still unwittingly trip the wire and may get caught up in a situation they didn't feel was wrong. 

This post is about awareness, not accusation. 

Robert....as a UMB, you subscribe to the highest principles and practices that I tend to 'preach'.  Your methods are as solid as they come.  As long as you redisclose the GFE 72 hrs prior to closing, you are good.  We are exploring a mutual relationship with the UMBA.  

Jeff...I will grab your words and address them in italics afterwards:

"Just a question for Bryant Tutas and other realtors. Isn't there a 6% commission do to the realtors that would be a total of $18,000? And don't you make usually 3% of that which would be $9,000? Just food for thought. Can't we lenders say that we do as much work.... and that we actually have more hands on the loan that the costs could be up there? Loan officer, processor, closer, and underwriter.  And sometimes more peoples hand in the transactions."

This is a whole separate discussion...but one worth having very soon.  I have mountains of stuff that I would love to discuss with some members of this community.  

Wouldn't my $6,000 fee be greatly acceptable as opposed to you straight fee model that you wrote about once before....trying to make it from $3,000 to $2,000 per loan. Does a mechanic charge you a flat fee and then when he runs into problems, has to order more parts, etc etc...have to charge you more? 

You misinterpret what I say, slightly.  Tell your client you are charging them $6k and exactly what you are providing them for this fee...A financial plan that will lower their principle balance by an additional $5k and could yield $50k in 8-10 years is a very valuable service and thus seems to justify your 'larger' fee.  It's all about disclosure.  However,  it is a mistake to believe that your client will value your services as much as you do, especially when the actual dollar amount is properly disclosed and coming out of their pocket.  Proper, blunt disclosure is the surest way to CYA. 

"I think what we have here is a misleading perception. NOT ALL brokers & bankers operate the way that Jeff describes in this blog. And yes, you didn't say all....you didn't really say most, but when you read this twice, it does make one think that you are talking about most. Is there abuse out there?  YES.... will we be able to ever control all of this?  Probably not."

Most brokers and bankers violate the TILA and black letter RESPA law and don't even know it.  Many of the mortgage professionals that get caught up in the 'bad' purportedly never even knew they were doing anything wrong.  Unfortunately (for them) this does not exonerate them from anything.  

"Each state has gone ahead and made some of their rules and laws a little stricter. Example. New Jersey.  They have made a threshold of 4.5% for all lenders to not exceed this. Meaning.... on a $100,000 loan, you can't have more than $4,500 in total charges. Now... this can be confusing, but this is to include all points charged by the lender, any junks fees charged by the lender (aka. commitment fee, processor fee, warehouse fee, etc etc), and lawyers fee and or title closing fee. Yes.... 3rd party fees are included in this threshold that Jeff fails to point out. Now I have to include in this formual other 3rd party fees. Which could reduce my total profit. So... this total of 4.5% in NJ uses both upfront fees and the YSP into the calculation.  Now, I will say this though, Bankers don't show YSP, therefore don't count this against the 4.5% threshold. But now examples are shown here that might make things a little clearer and not just general comments."

I completely understand where you are coming from hereIt's your job to know this stuff and operate within the rules set forth by the State you are originating in.  My home state of NC (along with GA) have some of the strictest state level statutes in the Country.  Simply explain your quandary to the borrower and justify your cost for service with them.  You chose a $100k loan amount...the restrictions you speak of disappear at higher loan amounts..which should be noted. 

I am sorry that this is long, but I wanted to point out 2 more things that I read from Jeff in here.  Jeff Corbet wrote: "85-90% of all mortgage transactions contain YSP's." Where did this come from or is this an opinion based on your knowledge? 

Howell Jackson and Jeremy Berry, two Harvard professors, before the U.S. Senate Committee on Banking Housing and Urban Affairs.  This post hi-lites some of their findings, and is commonly refered to in current legislative proceedings across the country.

"The mortgage industry as a whole is a baseball toss away from moving to an overall transparent policy platform, via legislation, technology, or both. My $.02 says technology starts it and the legislators play pile on." How can technology start something like this when the lenders won't do a thing until state or federal cracks down and changes the law? Do you think some software company is going to make this change?  Maybe a Countrywide or Wells Fargo will rewrite their own software just to be ahead of the game. But in all honesty, how far does one have to cut their price when there is sometimes large overhead.

Large overhead is an internal business problem that should and can address internally.  Large tiered splits between the house and the employees unecessarily inflates costs and fees for all parties....see Realtor Commissions.  6% divided by 2, divided by 2, and subtract taxes...These 'split' models reduce incentive and mandate high prices for marginalized services.  

'A piece of software' that mines correspondent mortgage rate and pricing data directly for consumer access...i.e.

Customer comes to my site and enters their risk based pricing criteria, my software automatically scours Wells, CWBC, WAMU, and select other wholesalers correspondent databases to yield a best results page of par pricing.  Now, I don't care if you're a banker or broker..or what the law states you have to or not have to disclose...this customer now knows what they qualify for and are armed with very loaded questions.  So, lets say they shop another correspondent banker and they quote the same loan, a higher rate with overall higher fees...who is the customer going to choose?  Can the banker deliver better or match the offer?  Sure, but what is their explanation for the first 'offer'?  I didn't have to disclose what you really qualified for?  Of course this wont be the explanation, but my communities clients will understand this to be the case.  

Brokers have a chance here to seize significant market share from the bankers who believe they are immune from all of this.  

As word spreads, more and more bankers will get caught-up in what is perceived as lying (material misrepresentation) by borrowers in the middle of a transaction, and more detrimentally, post transaction, and then the sh*t hits the fan.  Legislation and legal proceedings start with consumer awareness...we plan on providing the 'awareness', the consumers, blood thirsty attorneys, and legislation will follow.   

The wholesale lenders don't have to do a thing to their policies...they keep putting out and delivering rates just as they always have...it's the bankers and brokers who will be playing the tenuous game if they choose not to be 100% transparent in their dealings.   If you don't think the big wholesalers have their eye on what we are developing as a way for them to wear the 'white hat' and distance themselves from potential broker/ banker liabilities, best think again.  

It bears repeating that Bankers are most at risk here...for once the Veil is dropped, it can't be picked back up again...

Welcome to the world of true transparency in the mortgage industry.  Reasonable fixed fee's for services provided, not dictated by me, but by the open market. 

My fee suggestions are just that, suggestions.  I ran my brokerage from 35 LO's down to 2 LO's...my fees decreased, my profit margins and business increased...This was such an anomaly to anyone I showed it too, I decided to take it to a larger stage.  Any 'nouveau' sounding strategies and concepts I layout on my blog and other communities, have been practiced and successful in real life, and not just by me...I can attach a laundry list of brokers who practice what I preach and have begun to discover literal word for word content from my postings in other online brokerages 'About' pages and business process model descriptors.  They are due to receive notes asking for proper citation :)

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Eddy.... I am not here to harp the point but you did bring up one point that I meant to talk about.

Anyone selling a loan as a broker to any wholesale company has to disclose the YSP both on the initial good faith and the final HUD. Absolutely have too.   And the lenders will not to closing docs until this is completed. So, Jeff Corbet, does anyone have real numbers on the percentages of brokers and bankers/correspondents?  Meaning... What are there the most of out there in this industry. My guess would be there are more than 50% brokers out there than bankers/correspondents.  Again, just my food for thought.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Tommie...here are some apples: 

Apple #1

Apple #2

Apple #3

The 'fear mongers' are two Harvard Professors and the US Congress (amongst many other local legislative appellates).  YSP may be used as a business tool, but it's purpose has been clearly defined, again, not by me.  And, what am I trying gain by 'scaring' you?  I'm not trying to sell anything to this community or profit from my posts, using fear as a tool?  Rather they are for brokers, bankers, and real estate professionals as a whole, to understand the business they are in and be mindful of the practices they implement.

I have never, ever said that YSP's were bad, shouldn't be used, need to be done away with etc etc...

Rather they are, way more often than not, wielded and defined the wrong way...which opens one up to substantial liability. 

Proper and timely disclosure, as Robert practices, needs to be the prevailing practice to avoid future rotten apples. 

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

JeffB...Its my understanding that brokes account for 2/3rds of mortgage originations and far outnumber banker/correspondents in a head count.  

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

This crap is really getting old; this is the same old argument, twisted  a different way

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago
and still grossly misunderstood....
Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Not publically distributing wholesale rate-sheets...just to clients who are 'buying ' the product. 

Transparently disclosing all fees is the law, and rarely practiced, in TX and beyond.

We have taken proactive steps to position ourselves at the ethical forefront of this traditionally unethical industry, and encourage all other willing brokers and bankers to do the same.  

Nothing I write about or implement in my businesses dealings are new or particularly clever...It's ironic how being bluntly honest, staying in tune with the underpinnings of the industry, improving an industry's antiquated business processes efficiencies, for the direct benefit of the consumer (and my chosen affiliates), gets one labeled as a fear monger.  It's ok though, Ive been called worse by better.... 

Many people don't understand how to implement a model such as the general one I have suggested effectively.  Without proper and thorough discourse, simply changing pricing policies without an infrastructure adjustment would sink a business...trying to fit a square peg into a round hole will not work.  I can't reveal all the nuances of how our model 'works' publicly at this time.  As Ive said, it's not revolutionary by definition.  Rather, it is a matter of evolution and a chosen path of least resistance.     

Jackson and Berry's study was empirical, based on the facts laid before them Tommie...The lawmakers and legislators prefer to rely on qualified opinion driven by factual data...like their findings or not, we have to accept them.  Ignoring or discounting them is a risky option.

  

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Hi Jeff Belonger,

"Just a question for Bryant Tutas and other Realtors. Isn't there a 6% commission do to the Realtors that would be a total of $18,000? And don't you make usually 3% of that which would be $9,000? Just food for thought. Can't we lenders say that we do as much work.... and that we actually have more hands on the loan that the costs could be up there? Loan officer, processor, closer, and underwriter.  And sometimes more peoples hand in the transactions."

I have no problem with brokers charging whatever they want, as long as it is disclosed. Disclosure is the name of the game. If your consumer knows what they are paying then all is well with the world. If not, well then they are getting screwed. I have personally mortgaged properties about 20 times AND HAVE NEVER had YSP explained to me or disclosed to me except  at closing and on the HUD where it briefly mentions something about YSP 0-5%. So what's up with that?

Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago
Bryant...Were you ever told you qualified for a lower rate? Were you given the option to pay the YSP on the front side of the transaction as part of broker compensation via cash or equity?
Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
Jeff, never. YSP has never been mentioned or explained to me.
Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago

Here we go again.  Positioning the model to appear as the hero to the Realtor community on Active Rain!

We all disclose our YSP, Jeff.  It's the law.  We were taught that in  our licensing courses.  We do it within three days of application or credit pull (the sooner of the two).

Everybody says the same exact thing on these posts! 

Lenders lend money and sell to Wall Street.  Correspondent lenders are called lenders because they lend with their (albeit borrowed, like a bank's) money .  They're not brokers.  They assume credit risk and as such can keep the loan or sell it.  THAT is why they don't disclose YSP.

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago

We all...?

Everybody...? 

They assume credit risk and as such can keep the loan or sell it.  THAT is why they don't disclose YSP?

Ehhhh...no.  

If they 'assume the risk' they get paid the monthly interest, or receive SRP for selling it.  YSP has nothing to do with risk, at all.

Tommie:

2. Incidence and Magnitude of Yield Spread Premiums Are Extremely High. Another erroneous factual assumption implicit in the Policy Statement is the notion that yield spread premiums are paid by a relatively small number of borrowers who lack adequate resources to pay closing costs directly. To the contrary, my study indicates that the vast majority of borrowers pay yield spread premiums - on the order of 85 to 90 percent of all transactions.(7)

?????

I'm not rolling your (and my) profession under the bus...I'm trying to push it out of the way from getting run over, backed over, and re-run over by the bus. 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

His disclosure (ironically in the fine print at the bottom of this document, much akin to his disdain for YSP being in the fine print on loan docs) state this;

"As indicated above, the sample upon which my empirical study is based was limited to loans originated by an affiliated group of lending institutions and thus does not include loans from all lending institutions in the industry."

 

 

It was in fine print because you are drawing from a brief, not the original doc, which you may read by opening the link at the bottom of the post. 

It's called a focused sample...as it would be near impossible to draw from every lender in the USA.  It is safe to say the numbers would shake out very consistent, no matter how wide they broadened the scope.  

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Jeff Corbet... really quick. Sorry, but the problem that I have with a lot of your blogs and comments is because you seem to mention a lot of STATS. But you don't show where you get them from until I ask you about them. And then you go on to tell us that the person that made the quote protected themselves by explaining at the bottom, that these are studys. BUT....again, you never mention this in your blogs, that these are studies.  And not once, has anyone expressed that these studies can be off 8% to 10%... + or -    When I was taught how to debate, if you want to win a debate, you should tell everyone where you are getting your information, unless it is your opinion.

Sorry...but if you go back and read most of your statements... you never mention that these are either studies or your opinions. And it comes across that you are right and that everyone else is wrong. And basically, making yourself look like you are the best source.  And then when someone as myself or Brian Brady, or Tommie Gibson make a point or comment, you don't address it. You skate around the issue.

NOW... I know Rich Jacobson did a blog on A Few Bad Apples. And I know I am coming across very strong in this comment. And I know many you might have issues with the way I am writing this. But I spoken to 5 well respected loan officers on this issue and they are all here on Active Rain. I then went outside and asked 2 others that work for premier companies that aren't on active rain. I had them read this blog and several others. Every single one of them have felt that we have been slandered. We now a realtor that has commented in this blog that thinks everything that you are talking about is TRUE. You have copied what a realtor said and pasted it on your web site as a Testimonial.

Jeff,

Awesome, where else would you find a better put together blog and the truth.

Thanks for helping us all understand what is going on in the mortgage world.

10/13/2006

by Susan Trombley

  My problem now is that people and realtors are taking you wording and blogs as the gospel, thinking that what you are saying is thr truth and nothing but the truth. If you ever read any of my blogs, if I state a fact, I tell you where it comes from. If I don't give you the source, 9 out of 10 times, I then say....this is my opinion. Even when I give an example of something, at the end, I say this is my opinion...but that it works.

I went to your web site.... this is a quote from your web site. "YOU'VE NEVER BEEN OFFERED THE MORTGAGE RATES
PROGRAMS YOU ACTUALLY QUALIFY FOR. "   
Never?   Never means never.... How can you state that. It's false, because I will find you one client that was offered what they qualified for. All I need is one, to disprove this comment.

Here is another quote from your web site:  "Think I'm being sensationalistic? Prepare to be pissed off at your long time mortgage ‘friend'. " You are now trying to clients, that generally this happens to them. Not at anytime do you say... this can happen to you. You talk about lenders misleading the general public. You are leading them to believe that you are right.... and nobody else. This is my opinion, but read that sentence several times. You are telling people that even their mortgage friends basically rip them off. Again, not once do you make a statement that leads people to believe that this can happen..maybe, 25% of the time or 50% of the time. When I read this, it tells me ... ALWAYS.

Jeff Corbet.... let me ask you a question. On your profile here, on Active Rain. This is what you state:

Description:An Insiders View to the Deceptive and Predatory Mortgage Industry. Education plus Transparency = Fair Market Practices

But on your web site, http://www.thexbroker.com/, you talk about and offer: X-qualified and mortgage x-ray.

The first service is actually a mini application that says that you will e-mail rates. I have been trying it for a few days now. It doesn't send me anything. The other one, mortgage x-ray asks some typical question. And on this page, this is what you say. 

If you're in the process of getting a mortgage, you're probably wondering if the rate you've been quoted is the best you can do (it isn't), if the fees you're being asked to pay are reasonable (they're not), and if the broker/banker is hiding anything from you (what do you think?).

My comment to this is right here: You state.... isn't.... they are not. This implies that everyone that has ever done a mortgage HAS never received a fair deal. NEVER. And this is how you are preaching this on Active Rain, but in a more polite manner. Making others think that you are right. You know what this is doing to the other lenders on this site?  You are pitting the realtors and other types of potential clients again us, the LENDERS & loan officers on Active Rain and in general.   Me?  Jeff Belonger.... I am tired of defending myself and others on here and just in life in general.

You then go on to say this on your web page:

The fact is, I've NEVER reviewed a deal where the borrower was: a) quoted the interest rates he/she actually qualified for, and b) knew how much the broker was actually getting paid.

Again...never?  NEVER?  I beg to differ. I lost money on a client from doing his loan. Not money as in.... I spent so many hours on this deal...even though I made $2,000 on this person, I still lost time and money. No, I am talking about.... I had to pay my company $523 after it closed. Why did I do this?  Because the client didn't have the funds at the last minute. So I saved the deal by taking the hit, in hopes of referrals and some new realtor relationships. So... how can you say NEVER? In regards to the broker getting paid?  LOL  I sent a client a letter...who was an accountant and I in this letter showed him my total fees and YIELD Spread, even though I was a banker. He knew about the yield spread and I sent him my rate sheet and a letter. WHy am I mad? Because you are putting in peoples minds that everyone outside your web site does this...and that you and only you will save them from this.

And Jeff Corbet.  How is this?  Are you still a loan officer or run a mortgage company? You must be doing something because you have semi applications on your web site. And in order to get rates from other lenders, you have to be an approved lender with them.

Your web site then goes on to write articles about the mortgage industry. Here is one below. They are all negative, against the mortgage industry and all lenders out. basically all....

This came from your web site.  The Mortgage Rip-Off Report

Can you please answer these questions.

1. are you a lender?

2 are you a licensed loan officer? originator?

3. what do you do with the clients information, since you tell them that you can do better. Do you get them the loans?  pass it on to someone else?

To everyone reading this. I apologize for not being professional in some of your minds. We all know that many lenders do abuse this. But just about every blog that Mr Corbet writes are his opinions. But he makes you think this the truth and nothing but the truth. That this is the bible and you have to believe it. It has really upset a lot of the lenders here on Active Rain. I have been getting phone calls non stop since this blog was posted. Should I have wrote this? Well....if Active Rain wants to kick me off, I will go into withdrawal. But I am tired of realtors and people in general reading this and thinking this happens ALL the time. And making them think that basically, you should be paying little to nothing when it comes to lenders costs, etc etc.

In Jeff's last 3 blogs or so, I have asked questions hoping for the answers. But I don't get direct answers. I get a little of this and a little of that.

Many of the lenders and loan officers on here didn't know how to voice their opinion. But as you can see by some of the comments on here....it is now getting to some of us. We all played along with his comments. basically to be nice. But it is out of control now. People other than lenders are making comments now saying.... thanks for waking us up to this. But not once has he told you what he actually charges.. or what his rates are. But says he is the lowest. And people just believe him. He is basically trying to start a new model of financing. This has been tried 3 times that I know of in the last 6 years. And all of them have failed. But he goes on to say that this will happen and that so many lenders will jump on to this model. But he still hasn't shown any of us the model or the rates and fees. He has told one person on here that he was going to do this 2 months ago. Still nothing. Talk about promising something and not delivering. And he mentions these tactics on his web site.

I will leave the rest of this to everyone else. Even to the Active Rain Gods. If this was a true forum that I was writing in, I would be able to say this without worrying about getting booted out. And told to leave. This is my opinion, but it has also been expressed to me by 5 others....  two whom I have talked on the phone. I am asking for the negativity to STOP. And if you are going to state something, state it as YOUR opinion. And when you quote something, show the whole quote and not what you think others want to see.

Read two comments above this. Tommie actually found the quotes and what was said.... Jeff Corbet never mentioned this and skipped it. He just mentioned names. But someone actually went hunting and found something different.

 

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago
And Jeff Corbet, if you could all of my questions....especially the last group of them near the bottom. Please explain who you are. Mainly, are you still a loan officer or your own company?  Or do you pass this information onto other companies. Thank you.
Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Jeff Corbett:

Correspondent Lenders do assume credit risk.  You can sell to investors on a forward locking basis or bulk sell them to Wall Street secutitizers for better execution.  Either channel does not guarantee that they will buy the loans so a correspondent absolutely does assume credit risk.

SRP is term that is completely different from YSP.

I decided to give you an intelligent CORRECT answer instead of "ehhh.yeah"

If you can tell that I'm frustrated it's because you are the secong mortgage broker (and yes, jeff, you are a mortgage broker) here who is posing as the "good guy" in fron t of the Realtor community by spreading misinformation. 

Although, I have to hand it to you, Jeff.  Your snake oil is a whole lot more tolerable than some of the other guys; I think you actually believe you're an innovator rather than just another discount mortgage broker. 

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago

Wow!  I just read Jeff Belonger's comment and direct question to you, Jeff Corbett.  I must chime in.  I, for one, was naively taken by your "innovator" speech some 30 days ago when you promised me "more material tomorrow" ...(October 12, 2006) ...I'm still waiting.

Jeff Corbett:  You've stirred up some mighty strong emotions here but you aren't backing up the talk with the walk.  Your credibility is becoming the issue.

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago

Bad press is great press......

I leave my posts and opinion open to what and whoever would like to show me or anyone else, different.  I do not skate around issues, I hit them head on. 

Express your differences, please...attacking my character and credentials is a feeble and desperate move Jeff...Im highly disappointed....,

I will be happy to, and typically take good care to, quote any of my sources since they are inspiration for all opinion.  

My opinion, (by the way, opinion is the basis of every blog post...mine, yours, whoevers),  that is contained in of this particular post, is based on a Government Hearing, and the most comprehensive of it's kind.  

I guess it's up to the community to decide if I, or you, are the fraud...since that is what you are apparently accusing me of.

I've never attacked anyone on an individual level, with exception to those who have attacked others first

The mortgage industry is tainted and needs an enema...called transparency.  My opinion, enforced by amendment #1.  

If you cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen.   

This is getting interesting....Lets have a Blog War!  Me against the haters..... 

Jeff +5....and ANYONE else...please bring forth the questions I purportedly skate around.

Jeeze, sounds like someones jealous ;) and I hope you wouldn't, and definitely should not, get kicked off AR for having an opinion. 

  

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
Wow, now that's what I call some serious commenting. This stuff is way over my head but I will be back later in anticipation of a response. And just so you guys know, I am fully aware there are two sides to every "truth". I'm a firm believer in stepping up and defending your position. Damn AR is getting good!!!!!!!
Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago

Brian...Brokers, bankers, corespondent and otherwise assume risk when they agree to originate a loan.  Thats called business.  YSP has nothing to do with risk, that was the answer to your previous statement......"They assume credit risk and as such can keep the loan or sell it.  THAT is why they don't disclose YSP.

Im not a broker.  I was for 6 years, owned my own 'shop' which originated over 2500 loans.... closed in Jan 2006 to do what I do now...   You can read the rest on My Profile. 

I am the one being bluntly honest, with nothing to hide....if you want to challenge my credibility, prepare to have yours challenged back. 

I'm not sure who the other 2 are, outside of JeffB, Bryan Brady, and Tommie Gibson, but please all come forth, postulate your questions, throw your personal darts, and I will knock them down one by one.   Are any of you guys UMB's?  Do you not disclose YSP?  If you are not pulling any of the shenanigans I write of, then what in the world are you all worried about? 

If I promised you some reply on Oct 13th Brian, and did not deliver...I aplogize, it's hard to keep up with every comment, on every blog and community I comment on/in.  I will look back and address what I promised accordingly. 

It's Saturday eve...I will more than address all the pock shots tomorrow, on the largest stage AR will allow for...

 

 It's officially a Blog war...!!!

 

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
Oooo...Battle...Time For My Cammies And Guns...Damn AR is getting good!!!!! I to will anticipate the prgress of this post...
Posted by "The Lovely Wife" (Broker Bryantnulls Wife) The One And Only TLW. (President-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.) over 12 years ago
Well folks you've attracted my attention. No doubt that I am about to "chime in." In fact, I am printing 27 legal pages for this post and comments so that I can get this in perspective.  Jeff, I will take exception to much of what you have said.
Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 12 years ago

One last thing....one more time...

I have never attacked anyone of you personally.  If you take anything I write personally, thats your conscious, and your problem. 

I look forward to this debate.   

"posing as the "good guy" in front of the Realtor community by spreading misinformation."

What misinformation?

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
Ron...You will take exception...?  Plz explain?
Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Jeff,

I will explain in my post after I have had the time to collect all my thoughts and make my notes so that I can "accurately" and intelligenty respond. You have struck a nerve,  and you have done so before.  I was previously encourgaged to strike up a courteous debate by another ActiveRainer but did not. And now a second request to chime in.

So I will. 

This may take me a day or two as my business comes first and have to make the time for this.

Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 12 years ago

Jeff,

Let me take a moment to clarify "Take Exeception." Probably a preliminary choice of bad words. It's not as much take exception to your subject matter as take exception to your opinion or slant on the way you present it.  There is "No War" other than the one you have instigated.

Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 12 years ago

Hmm... I guess I'll start here

Illegal - Distributing proprietary information (wholesale rate sheets)

Currently, I do not... I did when I ran my brokerage.  The AE knew it as did the UW's and they and no probs at all with it. 

Illegal - Taking mortgage applications while not licensed to do so

Show me a mortgage application I have taken? 

Illegal - Representing yourself as a mortgage broker

Nope wrong again...show me where I say Im a current mortgage broker....

Illegal - Giving recommendations on loan products while not licensed to do so

And...0-4...Again, where are my direct reccomendations?

Any reccomendations, loan applications, or distribution of mortgage rate sheets et al. are done by licensed affiliates...Period.   

 

Ron, whenever you're ready....

Why don't we set the hoe-down for Wed...so everyone may 'tune-up'  :)

 

Be careful with your unfounded accusations regarding me personally, you guys are walking down the wrong road.   As I've said before...Ive heard and been threatened worse, by alot better. 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Jeff Corbet... I should be in bed by now. One thing until awake tomorrow. You do skate and skate well. You still haven't answered any of my questions that I wrote to you. Notta. And personal? You are the one taking this personal. You have mentioned war.... that is personal. I am talking about facts and opinions. Everything you state is mentioned as a fact or left opened to be assumed as a fact. If you go back to many of you blogs, this is about the first time now in a discussion that you have mentioned "opinion".

2nd... this was one of your comments. "Express your differences, please...attacking my character and credentials is a feeble and desperate move Jeff...Im highly disappointed....,"

Highly disappointed?  Please. I actually don't care. I care about how you are making the lending institution look like we are all crooks and you are the only one that is the good guy. I copied 2 to 3 quotes from your web site. You did not mention or defend one of them. Again, you are proving my points right. "that you are skating around several issues." Stand up and answer my questions. Just like Brian Brady's, you still haven't. And trying to make me look bad again.... LOL  In all honesty, this is PATHETIC. This is not a debate. Any college professor would look at this and cry.

the kitchen and heat crap that you quoted. I can withstand any heat. It's those that aren't even in the kitchen with me, that give blind comments from a distance. Why don't you come into the kitchen with me and then see who can stand the heat. There is an old saying. " stop talking out your _____" Your web site is one sided.....

I need sleep, because this is ruinning minds in the real estate community. Again, this is not a debate. Look up debate. Debate \De*bate"\, v. t. 1. To engage in combat for; to strive for.

2. To contend for in words or arguments; to strive to maintain by reasoning; to dispute; to contest; to discuss; to argue for and against. [1913 Webster]

Debate \De*bate"\, n.   

2. Contention in words or arguments; discussion for the purpose of elucidating truth or influencing action; strife in argument; controversy; as, the debates in Parliament or in Congress. [1913 Webster]

As my closing for now.... this is part of how a debate works. Proof....from a source and showing it. That was from Wesbter. Tommie Gibson called you out on an opinion that you had. And then you said it came from "The 'fear mongers' ..who are two Harvard Professors and the US Congress (amongst many other local legislative appellates).  YSP may be used as a business tool, but it's purpose has been clearly defined, again, not by me."  But you mentioned a name... and that was it. Tommie actually quoted their words.... you didn't. And he proved his point, you didn't. Again, a one sided debate.  We have shown facts, you only mention them and throw out names and half sources....and that's it. In an debate, you would have lost. Why? Because I called you out and asked for your references.... Once you can't prove these, you lose. Bottom line. Even if you are right. That is called a DEBATE.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Anarchy in the RE - it's about time! 

I must say that I have truly enjoyed watching this showdown stage itself.  I've read every post within this particular thread, and although I'd like to say it's intriguing more than entertaining, I cannot.  This banter is nothing more than a bias pissing contest between industry insiders who fear a revolution coming - one of consumer awareness.   There is no consumer caucus present with adequate representation. Moreover,  I see even less opinion that holds water from the outside investment and finance sectors that have seen similar legislative, but more importantly, cultural paradigm shifts.  Thanks for the invitation! 

With that said, I like to expand on few issues, but reserve the brunt of my flogging stick for Wednesday.

First, the augment of justifying the "hard work" or better termed "grift" mortgage brokers do for their dig in relative proportion to the 6% charity paid to realtors has one fundamental flaw...  the realtors have not conned the market into believing that the brokerage community actually has "control" over wholesale rates.  Why do you think your CPA (Cost per Acquisition), regardless of your marketing medium, has gone from $450 a lead two years ago to over $1,500 today - because you created a perception that forces 8 out 10 prospects to shop you.  Realtors on the other hand, although most are lazy and sit back during the bull market and collect gratuity, are subject to the pricing set by the buyer and the market conditions.  The equivalency would be allowing realtors to list a home without disclosing the price, only to hock the buyer for a subjective figure while they're on ether.  (I'll defer to the Starbucks analogy)

Second, what you are all afraid of is more than a correction, but a collision - one of technology and marketing that puts the power in the hands of the consumer.  Welcome to the long list of forgotten souls that line the hallways of every industry from travel to stocks.  Yes, this is the beginning of the ousting of middle management in the 80's for your sector.  You see, IBM is going direct and Ingram Micro is about to tank.  Why, because you have no brand equity without being in the middle, and that means no value!

If any of you were smart, which a few of you seem to be, I would put your egos aside and find a way to collaborate on becoming the Robber Barons of the new frontier.  The landscape is about to change, and all of your bickering to justify your worth is not going to save your scalps.  

I'd rethink your Wednesday session and put it to better use by attempting to collaborate on opportunity rather than justifying your respective positions within your industry.  Six years ago, you all would have been arguing over "eye ball stickiness" and billion dollar valuations for start-ups going public with PE ratios that make no sense.  Guess what - I sold short and made a killing.

Anyway, if it's war for Wednesday,  I'll be there with bells on.  But if anyone has a better idea, maybe I'll stoke a check for something more useful than YSP. 

Oh yeah,  Tommie boy... from what I can see, and I'm no expert (well, yes I am),  Xbroker is nothing more than a marketing and PR portal, just like wallst.net is for stock promotion.  Does the Kelly Blue Book violate automobile financing regulations by disclosing dealer invoice?  Or better yet, maybe they're fee splitting by taking money from Ford for advertising.

Sharpening my fangs....

Posted by Adam Stuart (Mercury Ventures) over 12 years ago

Adam....  not for nothing, you might want go back and read EVERY comment again then. You make a few points worth noting. I NEVER said I am afraid of this or that it could change. I have been doing this for 14 years. I have weathered every change. One big change that had a lot of people scared.... the DU system.

My whole point, if you read this again...is that his web site and blogs are not of opinion....but statements. He makes false claims that this is the TRUTH.  He doesn't have all of his facts straight and has ignored more than several questions. If this was in front of a jury for debates, he would have lost. That is a fact. He doesn't defend himself with facts. Just his opinions that he thinks are facts. On his web page.... he is negative on anything and everything about mortgages, how they ALL lie.... and mislead..... and how they are all wrong. And that they don't show and or tell all. And he doesn't say many or several...but ALL.... at least implies this, without using the actual word.

So...if you read every comment, you would have realized this and have read it. And that he hasn't answered that many of my questions....actually none of them. But he took the time to rant and rave for 4 to 5 paragraphs. Only one can assume then that he doesn't have the answers. OR..... he is the one that is scared that people will realize the truth. All he does is throw it back at me. But I come back with written proof. So... a pissing match?  No....even those can have good banter. This is just lopsided...

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Jeff Corbett:

I think I better understand your position now.  You are an unlicensed (by state or national regulators ) PR firm?

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago
Jeff.... as Brian has stated. What is your middle initial?  At least answer my questions. Why won't you. ???
Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Actually, I don't see his model as a "discount brokerage" at all.  From what I can tell, he’s the just stirring the pot of perceived repression and fear for the sheeple consumer – the very ones that are about to be in foreclosure after being hocked neg ams that didn’t beat the appreciation curve. (I know, you all heavily counseled your clients about the downside).

The legitimacy of his overall methodology is clearly only important to you folks. Right or wrong in it’s entirety, spin wins!  His message is creating press, provocation of thought, and although you might prefer to continue to  voice blast at 11pm “mortgage rates are at an all time low,” press #1 now, I think a taste of demagoguery for the masses is aptly just. 

My guess, if everyone on this blog were an Xbranch being given “free” leads that didn’t cost you $1500 in CPA (you all earned that), the tone would be quite different.

Let’s get down to the nitty-gritty…this is about marketing!  The dissemination of information to the masses (misdirected or otherwise), is the cornerstone of influence.  If he wants scare the world in to believing that “all” brokers  are dirty thieves, and that brings about an awareness of the industry – great!  Let’s reverse the situation and take Ditech.  They have sold the consumer (through marketing), on a flat fee loan (not true) – lying all the way to “their” bank.  I’ll bet each and every one you brokers bash them during your value pitch, hoping to not lose another “bone” to Ditech.   

It’s the game – but unfortunately from what I can tell, most of you haven’t realized yet that you are just pawns -  “the collective whole” of resounding echoes that blog your way to mediocrity while the innovators (in drag or not), are stealing your business.  (I know, xbroker is not an innovator – we’ve covered that).

Bottom line, I’m not in “your” business, I’m in “the” business, and in the world I live in as Gordon Gecko so succinctly put it…

The new law of evolution in corporate America seems to be survival of the unfittest. Well, in my book you either do it right or you get eliminated.”

Adam Stuart 

Posted by Adam Stuart over 12 years ago

Tommie,

Although I appreciate your correction with regard to the Kelly Blue Book analogy, it wasn't really crafted for technical interpretation. The point being made, is that "marketing drives the market." I don't really care about the nuisances of auto disclosure compared to real estate. Hate propaganda invokes hate, doesn't mean the message is acceptable or palatable. Just as the birth of a rare panda bear in china gives us all hope. In the end, both are impostors. 

Public opinion is fickle, short sided, and driven by greed and fear or both. Capitalism, although we'd like to believe is the common thread of our entrepreneurial spirit, is nothing more than an oligopoly of market makers and regulators. Which one are you? 

Posted by Adam Stuart over 12 years ago

Jeff Corbett,

I will challenge you to provide answers to the various questions posed to you and then ask that you answer a few of my questions. I could pose a few more about about your personal agenda but I believe that I already know the answers.

Why is it that you claim that there is an "Internal Civil War in  the Mortgage Industry? What is your basis for selecting the title of your post? Is this your opinion, an assumption or a fact. Please point us to your source!

You state that an "Overwhelming majority of borrowers do not need YSP's to pay up-front settlement costs but are never offered otherwise. Again is this your opinion or a fact? Please reference your source.

As the "XBroker", I don't know what markets that you are licensed in, what markets that you target but I will suggest that it must be different than mine. The bulk of the borrowers are low to moderate income, first-time buyers who need 100% financing and seller contribution to boot. If they are somewhat fortunate if they can swing 95-97% financing and still many need seller concessions. Your ugly 3 little letter acronym (YSP) does support their needs no matter what you may say!

I have to go conduct business, more later!

One parting thought tho below is your posted fixed fee schedule:

XBROKER FIXED FEE SCHEDULE:

    • $3,000.....Full-Documentation / Sub-Prime
    • $2,750.....Stated Income, Verified Assets
    • $2,500.....Stated Income, Stated Assets
    • $2,500.....No-Documentation

Geesh, you earn more than I do. Maybe I should go to work for you......oops, not really!

 

 

Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 12 years ago
Alrighty then!  Seems like this is shaking up to be better than the Russell Shaw / Candybags event!
Posted by Tony and Suzanne Marriott, Associate Brokers, Serving Scottsdale, Phoenix and Maricopa County AZ (BVO Luxury Group @ Keller Williams Arizona Realty) over 12 years ago

"The Lovely Wife Here"

Man, I am learning a lot here...I have been watching this post for the last day...WOW. I see that some are taking the word WAR in the literal sense. In the world of Blogging "WAR" means a controversial post. This is one of those and MAN...I am learning a lot here...Pardon the interruption Gentlemen, by all means please continue. Bearing in mind this is a public post. Not to mention you have a Lady present. Thank you.

TLW "The Lovely Wife"...Learning A Lot Here...ROAR!

Posted by "The Lovely Wife" (Broker Bryantnulls Wife) The One And Only TLW. (President-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.) over 12 years ago

zz z z Z z z z Z z z z ....   I will come back to this tomorrow. Everyone knows where I stand/. ANSWER my questions if you want to be credible. You know the answer to that one. I hope you do.

Hey Adam...some great terminology.....  so.... I am just trying to clarify. What do you actually do?  And why not sign up on Active rain.?

Overall.... Ron brings out what I was trying to get at. Jeff Corbet has a scale, a pay scale. If you can answer my one major question. Do you still write/originate loans?  Or is your web site that has a application...similiar to a 1003.... when it gets filled out, where does it go? Do you sell this to another lender? Besides.... like I said... I have been trying that so called application.... not 4 days in a row...and twice, about 2 weeks ago... it hasn't worked. And you haven't acknolwdged this. Why not?  Is it a ploy? 

Anyhow....I am done for the day. Beating this brick wall is making my knuckles bleed.... lol   Read my blog later tonight.... come in and answer my questions.... but why would you, you can't even do that here. And you were given a chance and failed to do that. Because of that, you have lost all respect from me. I bet your comment would be, I don't care. Well, you should, because my voice on here is now stronger. I don't mislead. You sir, have. And I am being polite with that comment.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Jeff Belonger,

Well, according to Tommie, I raise Panda Bears in China. Actually, I like Tommie, I might invite him to be my partner in the birthing sanctuary.To answer your question, I am the Managing Partner of a Venture Fund and just enjoy controlled chaos. 

Posted by Anonymous over 12 years ago

Wow....Nice!

Just logged back in,...and we have a new participant...Ill need a minute to catch back up and reply to this hodge podge...

Jeff, Tommie, Brian, and Ron....anyone else?  

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

I have work to do as well, and wouldn't you know it, I have an open house today. Who wants to lay odds I get no one to show. Why is my realtor eating all my pastries?  

I will comment on Tommie's statement and question regarding free leads and CPA... 

Posted by Adam Stuart over 12 years ago

Im gonna take my answers to your questions and outcrying to a new post....

All of This is Way to good to be lost in a comment thread... 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
Excellent idea. TLW.
Posted by "The Lovely Wife" (Broker Bryantnulls Wife) The One And Only TLW. (President-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.) over 12 years ago

Ok I have a couple of questions related to YSP. I just want to make sure I am on the same page since this is all new to me. I'm not forming an opinion yet, just want to make sure I am on the same page with what YSP is.

1. Is paying YSP a consumer choice or is it just automatic?

2. Is YSP on the HUD1 as a POC item?

3. Let's say I agree to pay my broker $5,000 to do the loan. can this be split with say $2,000 as a closing costs and the balance reflected in YSP? And if so, how much would $3,000 YSP affect my rate? Is there a ratio? Or are they just like points where 1 point equals 1/8 percent(I think)? 

4. Is there ever a time, that as a consumer, I would not be aware of YSP and it would just be paid out without my knowledge? Does it always affect my rate?

5. Do brokers prefer getting paid through YSP or direct closing costs? Or does it matter?

6. Do Lenders pay brokers in any other way?

7. Would YSP show up on a GFE?

Ok that's it for now.

Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago

Tommie..... sorry, but # 2 is incorrect. The YSP is NEVER disclosed on the HUD if I am a BANKER and even signed up as a correspondent lender.

so....#4 is wrong also.... it's not 100% of the time. Again, refer to my number 2 answer.

 I am not going to answer the other questions until tonight or tomorrow..... those questions and answers are more of OPINION. But I had to give the correct answers for the other 2 questions...... sorry, but those are the facts. And again.... you have to remember state laws also. But as a BANKER.  They do not show YSP at anytime.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Ok, that helps. Is a Banker a direct lender? Meaning there is no shopping rates or anything else. I guess my question is how do I know if I am using a Banker, broker or correspondent lender? Are there other entities that I have missed?

Sorry for the real basic questions but I don't do loans and I don't work with buyers so really I am very ignorant when it comes to loans.

Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago

Im writing a new post which will address this as well Bryant.   But would like to quick answer your Q's:

1)  A CONSUMERS CHOICE...PERIOD!!!!

2)  Bankers dont have to (does this make it OK, I say no).  But it should disclosed POC...to see a bankers comparison...see my Disturbing Truth Post.

3) Yes, Depends on loan size and type, Yes, and Yes.

4) Yes, YES.

5) Doesn't matter...$$ is $$.

6) The Lender is not paying the broker...this would be construed as a kickback and thus illegal under HUD's rules regarding kickbacks...they are rebating the CONSUMER..this is the most misunderstood aspect of YSP's...They belong to the borrower NOT the Broker!!!

7) YSP SHOULD BE DISCLOSED AND REDISCLOSED on a GFE up to 72 hrs prior to close. 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Jeff Corbet.....  spend time on that new blog. I am still waiting on my initial questions that I asked twice.....the first time over 12 hours ago, but you have made 4 other comments since that time...still ignoring my questions.  WHY?   In my opinion, don't worry about your OPINIONS to the new questions. Or are you trying to tell me something?  I hate assuming, but sometimes I have no choice but to assume because of someone else's actions.

Last... Bryant...... like  I said, I will answer those questions tonight. Jeff Corbet can't answer them any other way,  because it would go against his statements on his web site.  And that is the bottom line. He is one sided..... and only one side. I on the other hand will point out the good and bad on all questions. And it's not just OPINION. Something that he is failing to realize until he answers my questions.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Jeff...My last name is spelled Corbett

I will answer all your questions...I am not dodging, ducking, nor on your immediate time schedule.  I will do so in an articulate, straight forward way, with subsequent questions for you and any other broker who would like to chime in.  

Im trying to tell you to back off, your goading isn't going to inspire me to oblige you any quicker than I am currently doing.  All in good time....pipe down. 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

LOL    whatever.... you will say what you want to anyhow. The good thing is that we have made others aware of how you percieve the industry and lenders in general. And I won't elaborate on that until you answer my questions., Again, thanks for proving my point. I am not goading you .....I am not pushing you. I am just tired of people as yourself that get a chance to make their point, but all you have done is rattle off your own opinions again. And still have answered my questions, until I actually beg you. You didn't mention this 6 comments again. Not until I pushed the button.

Maybe, just maybe we will see some answers in a week. Hey, just my opinion. But it's the only thing that I have to go off of because of what you have shown me.  That's all...... 

I feel bad for people here on active rain, because this has been a one sided joke. And that I am now dropping down to your level.... it was the only way to get your attention.  Yes.... because I didn't have it before and you showed me this.

Even your lame answer to Brian Brady who has been waiting for your answer for 2 months. And it wasn't a general question that he asked. It was something in regards to your so called mortgage x model. What you want to do for the industry. And he has asked you more than once. But you give an answer....so, I was busy..... it got away from me?   lol  Well, you are on here every other day. Can't be too busy. And you know damn well that it was a big and important question... and again, you skated around the issue. Transparency that you preach?  Yourself. Meaning, I can see right through you. And others have caught on. This is not my opinion, but the facts.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago
oh yea.... sorry Jeff Corbett. I am human by the way. But glad that you could at least pick up on one mistake.
Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

I am hoping the stage is as large as possible...for which I appreciate your recruiting efforts.  

It will be out no later than this evening...go grab another beer. 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

X...Are you going to let us know on this thread when the new post goes up?...TLW...ROAR!

Posted by "The Lovely Wife" (Broker Bryantnulls Wife) The One And Only TLW. (President-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.) over 12 years ago

LOL... I haven't had a beer since Friday night. Keep talking, you are just proving my points. In all honesty, I am not worried about you anymore, here on Active. You will only be able to survive because of your one-sided web site. You leave no room for discussion on your web site. TALK about MISLEADING clients. Every topic on your site talks in negative tones against lenders. But you have a semi loan application on your web site. Your so called model has been tried 3 different times. It never materialized and the only way that you can get this so-called model off the ground is by slandering the mortgage industry that you even work in. Not as a lender, but as someone supplying leads to other lenders. YOU are then a middle man.... it costs lenders to get leads, no matter who they are from. So...answer my questions and stop coming back on here.

You are just prolonging it.......as you have done wit both myself and Brian Brady. Because you were too busy beating up on lenders and not answering a major question and issue that Brian Brady asked...and not just once. But again, you skip right over that after I mention it again. WHY?    ??????

 

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago
Thanks Tommie, This is starting to make a little sense. Now putting semantics aside, Should I, as the consumer, always have the option of paying my loan's costs up front or financing my lending costs by using the YSP?
Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago

Tommie... thanks for bringing facts to the table and to this so-called discussion. I am just too tired to keep bring facts to this table of discussion. But I am ready for his answers........  just waiting with my glass of water... Water that I have been drinking all day. You show a lot of class in your chosen words Mr. Corbett. My tone of lately?  Just playing along with your tone and your so-called web site.

And Jeff Corbett...... see, you mentioned Mr Jackson, but you never mentioned what was behind his voice. You just made it sound like what he has done is GOLD..... is the word and right. Just like what's in the bible. But see, what we have done is go do research and found that all you were doing is using a name that was of opinion......not the truth or hard facts. Again, OPINION. But siad these were facts.

Fact \Fact\ (f[a^]kt), n.  Reality; actuality; truth.

fact n 1: a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred.

Opinion \O*pin"ion\, n. 1. That which is opined; a notion or conviction founded on probable evidence; belief stronger than impression, less strong than positive knowledge; settled judgment in regard to any point of knowledge or action. [1913 Webster]   (Law.) The formal decision, or expression of views

opinion n 1: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty; "my opinion differs from yours".

stats \stats\ (st[a^]ts), n. Shortened form of {statistics}[2] (b) . [Slang] [PJC]

Statistics \Sta*tis"tics\ (st[.a]*t[i^]s"t[i^]ks), n. [Cf. F. statistique, G. statistik. See {State}, n.] 1. The science which has to do with the collection, classification, and analysis of facts of a numerical nature regarding any topic.

Just some food for thought. So we all can be on the same page. In regards to answering my questions.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Tommie, your post is off...Please read the entire testimony.  Much of it cites black letter RESPA law, it is not a matter of opinion if YSP's are the brokers or bankers, they are the Borrowers, that is the law...I will have the actual statutes in my pending Post...

They were not trying to change the law!!  He (they) were hired to INTERPRET IT against current mortgage broker practices for the US Congress...

 

Im not skipping over anything Jeff...Lets let the AR community decide for themselves...

 

TLW...I will notify everyone in my associates or associations (which you are apart of) ..please 'pass it on', once you receive it ;) 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
Bryant...Demand It!!!
Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Bryant..... that is an easy question. It comes down to your goals. If short term, better to allow the YSP to help you. If long term..... better to pay the costs.

In Jeff Corbett's perfect world, this is little of either.Meaning....look at what Ron Withers copied as Jeff Corbett's fee schedule.  Jeff Corbett is like a real estate company that has flat fees. This is exactly what we are talking about, if you want to get down to the nitty gritty. These models have come and gone.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Hi Jeff B., I understand that. But that wasn't my question. My question was.

Should I, as the consumer, always have the option of paying my loan's costs up front or financing my lending costs by using the YSP?

Meaning my broker, banker or whoever will discuss this with me and let me know my options.

Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago
Got Cha'...Will do...TLW...ROAR!
Posted by "The Lovely Wife" (Broker Bryantnulls Wife) The One And Only TLW. (President-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.) over 12 years ago

yes Bryant.... you should have this option.

 

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Ok thanks Tommie. So I guess if I'm not working with a Broker, I'm at more risk of paying something I'm not aware of i.e higher rate that includes YSP. Is that right? Again I'm just really trying to make sure my understanding is correct in preparation of the big show down at the OK Coral:)

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to answer my questions. It really is appreciated.

Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago

Hey there "TLW"

Just back after a loan appointment. Boy is my inbox jam packed. Say did you set the record for comments on your nickname post???? ........if so, your record might be in jeapordy here! LOL

PS. No YSP disclosed. This time out I was a lender. But the client is getting a good MCM deal, 100%, Seller paid costs. No subprime 80/20.

Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 12 years ago

******Bryant and everyone else.... I just had a long comment that I was sending until it was lost.

******But here is my point. Jeff Corbett is voicing his side and only his side. It's an Opinion, not fact. When you visit his web site, http://www.thexbroker.com/, it's all negative about the mortgage industry. This is copied from his site: YOU'VE NEVER BEEN OFFERED THE MORTGAGE RATES PROGRAMS YOU ACTUALLY QUALIFY FOR.  How would one read this?  I see the word NEVER.... meaning, never, not once.

Never \Nev"er\ (n[e^]v"[~e]r), adv. [AS. n[=ae]fre; ne not, no + [=ae]fre ever.] 1. Not ever; not at any time; at no time, whether past, present, or future. --Shak. [1913 Webster]

His whole web site is negative and tells everyone that he will basically be the best. But he is selling this service to other brokers. But setting a straight fee per loan. Why won't this work?

******Please read below.... maybe this will clear up what both sides are talking about:   ******

If I had to do every loan say at $2,500......total... this is divided up by the lender that I work for and then I get a split. The lender still has their costs. You do the math. What does it take to live in your house just in regards to electric and phone.

The lenders need some flexiblity and I will explain why.I recenlty lost money on a deal. I had to pay $450 out of my pocket after it was all said and done. Why did I have to do this? I didn't have to. I still wanted to make sure that they closed. It was puchase. the client was suppose to have received a gift from his mother who came up short. The seller needed their money and I wasn't going to ask for help from the realtors. I build relationships and a strong referral base.

So.........my next deal, I actually make a total of $6,210, but it's not all mine. There is a split. But I saved this client money monthly and because of my mortgage plan, I will save them another $16,000 in 6.3 years.

Each client is different. But by charging money on clients that I give great advice too...... save them more than just thousands....have superior customer service..... etc etc. This allows me to help those last minute because the law of averages out.

Under Jeff Corbett's model, this would never work. If a lender is making $2,500 per deal and that's it. And then a deal comes across their desk that is now making no MONEY at settlement, do you think they will do this loan. NO.

Just some food for thought, because not everything is being placed on the table here for discussion. Again, it's just one-sided. Like I have said before.... is the YSP and certain fees abused? YES>>.  YES...... but not by everyone. This is the difference between me and Jeff Corbett. I look at both sides and present facts for both. He doesn't and his actions on here and his web site prove this. His web site is a FACT of his opinions.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago
Ok now that I have that info, here's is question I have meaning to ask. A buyer makes an offer on one of my listings asking the seller to contribute $8,000 towards closing costs. The seller agrees. 2 weeks into the deal, the other Realtor calls me and says the Lender will only allow the seller to contribute 3% which is $6,000, can the seller bring a check to closing for $2,000 qnd give to the buyer? Well, my answer is no, as this is mortgage fraud. NOW could I suggest to the mortgage broker that the extra $2,000 (the buyer has no cash) is worked into the YSP thus reducing the buyer's closing costs by $2,000, thereby giving the buyer the ability to close? AND would a lender allow the seller to prepay $2,000(that is still in the deal) worth of interest payments for the buyer?  
Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago

Jeff Corbett:

I honestly wonder where you are coming from.

I read on your myspace page this: 

I owned a mortgage brokerage, real estate brokerage and construction business for 6 years, where I taught others to systematically deceive people like you who desperately needed sound financing, advice, and marketing for their real estate.  And you know what? In the eyes of my clients, I WAS A ROCK STAR.  I was pulling strings, cashing in favors, bending over backwards. But what they didn't see was me driving to the office every day in a car worth more than some of their houses. What they didn't know was the truth about how much my services were costing them at the time, or what they continue to cost them to this day.
   We made sure my clients were comfortable in thinking they'd gotten the best deal possible. We all want to believe that, and all it takes is someone to feed the illusion. They assumed I had their interests at heart, but the fact was I worked for me. All brokers do.
  
    Maybe you think you're pretty sharp, that you know when you're getting taken. Well, think again. I don't care if you've got a finance degree from Harvard and a 180 IQ, you're no match for an individual trained in the art of what you don't know, and you have NO IDEA.

   I've trained more than one cerebrally-challenged college drop-out saddled with student loans and a bar tab, and within a week he's taking $10,000 scalps off people smarter than you or me.  'He' is employed at every real estate and mortgage brokerage in the industry.  If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=59335633&blogID=93101363&MyToken=a782e992-dcf3-44ae-a288-fe0390e8963e 

Was your self-guilt over your systematic deceit the catalyst for this lashing out at the mortgage brokerage industry ?  I think we are all furious that you are making blanket statements about the honesty and integrity of our profession. 

I can appreciate that you have finally found the need for ethics in our profession but I can tell you that most of us were playing by the rules all along.  

Can you understand why your credibility is the issue here? It's like Jose Canseco leaving baseball and writing a book accusing 85% of the players of taking steroids.

I would like to think that you are well-meaning.

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago

Classic piece of early marketing!! 

Actually paid an editor to construct that piece... 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
BTW...Its nice to see Bryant asking some real questions...
Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

BRIAN BRADY......  let me give you my honest opinion to answer your question. One would have to think that he wasn't as successful as he should have been. So instead of being one of them, why not fight against them and try to win the hearts of clients that have no clue. And yes, MANY clients will believe what they read, even if it is opinion.

Character?  This is another debate. Credibility?  It never came down to that until Jeff Corbett started making this one-sided and never answering my questions or getting back to Brian Brady on a very important matter.....that is now 2 months old. And Jeff Ciorbett's answer was.... I was busy and didn't think anything of it. WHAT?  I am sorry...... this all had to do with your so-called x-factor and your model. Brian and I were interested. I had my doubts. But you have now proven my thoughts. I thank you from the bottom of my wallet.

The only thing that is happening here now is the Jeff Corbett is enjoying this because he has gotten an audience .... attention. This can feed someone's ego that was never attended to before. This is my opinion.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Jeff B., we get it already. I fully understand it is an opinion as are your comments. I really am just trying to get a handle on YSP. The fact of the matter is I have financed homes about 20 times, with 10 in the last few years and I don't have a clue what YSP is. It has never been explained to me at all by anyone. As a consumer I need to know. I really don't care how much money anyone makes or charges or how they charge it. What I do care about is that I am ignorant about YSP and choose not to stay that way. I have no doubt in my mind that you and every other LO, broker, banker(another confusion of mine) meet all of your legally required disclosures and obligations. BUT there is a big difference between disclosure and presentation.

This conversation is not about compensation it's about disclosure. Your entire last comment is about why you can't work for less. Personally I wouldn't either. But that has nothing to do with what this thread is about.

Obviously Jeff C's web site is self serving. So is mine. But that's not the point either. I've read 80 something comments on here so far and still I'm not sure what the law states when it comes YSP. Who's paying who what when and how and when does the consumer get to know about it and make the decision and how can I, a Real Esate broker, that does Real Estate everyday not know what YSP is and HOW could I have never had this explained to me after as many mortgages as I have taken out. I just don't get it.  

Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago

Jeff Corbett:

You are showing us absolutely no respect by avoiding our direct questions.  I think your legitimacy is an absolute fair topic.  Again, I want to believe you and have for the past 30 days.

I'll pay you the compliment of being direct: 

Was you myspace blog really your experience or was it a fabrication created to stir up debate? 

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago

and I am sorry... my questions weren't real? They aren't real enough for you because you are afraid of your answers. If I wasm in a court, I would have won this in front of the jury a day ago. You can't tell the judge to keep giving you another day....after day.... just so you can make people wait. Maybe in a death sentence.  One word... SAD.

And now you are telling us this...after what Brian Brady brought to your attention from myspace:

Classic piece of early marketing!! 

Actually paid an editor to construct that piece... 

 

11/12/2006 by Jeff Corbett <!-- <a href="javascript:tipAgent(8944, 19738, 77132)"><img src="/images/tip_points.png" mce_src="/images/tip_points.png" border="0"></a> -->

again, my opinion.... you are now grasping for straws. It's like a kid that lies. After lying so many times, over and over, you don't know what the real truth is. Which is it jeff Corbett?  We are digging and finding things.

Tell me your middle initial. It won't matter, please read the next part. This is from the state of North Carolina's licensing web site.

Name

Current Employer

License Number

License Status

Expiration Date

*Education Credits

Corbett, Jeffrey M.

 

N/A

Expired

N/A

 

Corbett, Jeffrey W.

 

I-129803

Inactive

06/30/2007

 

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago
Ron...I don't care about the record. I care about being informed.
Posted by "The Lovely Wife" (Broker Bryantnulls Wife) The One And Only TLW. (President-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.) over 12 years ago

Well now you know I wasn't lying, I had a Mortgage Brokerage for 6 years...Thx for shortening my pending post.  

You guys are too much.... 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Hi Tommie, Thanks for the info. I get it. I can see where going staight to the source could be advantages even if the rate may be tad higher. I think I have what I need now and will leave you guys alone. At least now I know the questions to ask when applying for a loan.

Jeff, Brain and Jeff, I'm not on any body's side but my own. Just gathering knowledge so I can make informed decisions in the future. Thanks for all your help.

Posted by Bryant Tutas, Selling Florida one home at a time (Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC) over 12 years ago

Distinctly said I was not a licensed broker...

 

You guys are making a nice statement to your credibility and a wonderful post as to how Mortgage Brokers and Bankers will pull out all the straws to shut me out any way you can.  You are trying to bury me personally for my opinion about an industry...

It won't work....You gonna call the FBI next?

 

Brian Brady...It was a sensationalist piece of marketing that never made it past MySpace, as is the place for such material. 

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
I appreciate your partial answer, Jeff.  I believe that you had a mortgage brokerage.  What is your interest in our industry today?  What is your motivation?
Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago
Thanks, Jeff C.  I understand now.
Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago

Noone wants to shut you out.  Your message makes sense but it is an insult to suggest to a group of good brokers this:

We made sure my clients were comfortable in thinking they'd gotten the best deal possible. We all want to believe that, and all it takes is someone to feed the illusion. They assumed I had their interests at heart, but the fact was I worked for me. All brokers do

Now I understand that you really didn't mean it; it was just to create press.  Thanks for the direct answer 

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) over 12 years ago

To cut the fat and show those in the industry who have an ounce of vision that mortgage origination can be done 100% transparently, with greater efficiency and profit margins using some specific Tech upgrades that are to be implemented at the business process level.  

We will provide A SUCCINCT SERVICE TO BROKERS AND CONSUMERS...all forth coming...I PROMISE...

My Marketing is just that MARKETING...just like you market 'the lowest rates and best service in the industry'....

I market the VAST and FAR REACHING Problems in the unregulated mortgage industry...with a solution...and not one that requires anyone pay me money....I offer a more comprehensive view into this industry than ever gets explained for FREE....

Do I have a plan to generate revenue from The XBroker, YES, will I tell you how, YES...down to the penny. 

 

So if everyone would stop the Gang Bang for a minute I can finish my post.... 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Distinctly said I was not a licensed broker...

 

As in not now...as I have said many times...someone beat you to that punch...quickdraw. 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Jeff C.

"We made sure my clients were comfortable in thinking they'd gotten the best deal possible. We all want to believe that, and all it takes is someone to feed the illusion. They assumed I had their interests at heart, but the fact was I worked for me. All brokers do"

Your accusations are totally unfounded, most distasteful and absolutely unprofessional. You are so good at calling the kettle black. I do resent being lumped into your catch-all statements, opinions and absolutely factless accusations.

An opinion,.....your current business model as the "XBroker" is a continuation of the deception and illusion you speak of above. And another opinion, is that you still only care and work for yourself.  With your attitude and approach to all this and considering your own words, why should we believe that you changed or "saw the light"

Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 12 years ago

"I do resent being lumped into your catch-all statements, opinions and absolutely factless accusations."

Then differentiate yourself Ron...Obviously you perceive me as a threat, as I have just adjusted how you sell and disclose loan costs to your some of your clients....

I don't have to prove that you're a transparent broker/banker, you do.   

As far as 'saw the light"...Please read prior comments before re-hanging yours..... 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

READ MY PUBLIC PROFILE.  Jeeze....

 

And I haven't' erased Jack... 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Jeff C.

You couldn't be further from the truth....there is absolutely no way that I perceive you as a treat!  I perceive many other things but not that.

My illusion: That It must be tough on you, as one man, carrying the weight of all this honesty, integrity and numerous other personal characteristics on your self-serving shoulders.

My reality, that I may have stooped down to a level that I don't want to be at in addressing your propoganda. I am weighing in on pulling out of this verbal exchange with the hopes that this community will see right thru your transparency!

Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 12 years ago

That makes two of us...

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Jeff C.

My congratulations and compliments to you!  You are a master at what you do....albeit distasteful. You have your mission/agenda and you accomplished it.  I'm sure that you snickered all along the way and that your "ego meter" skyrocketed off the scale.

Given your self-proclaimed background your XBroker is a skillful masterpiece re-invention of yourself and your prior life.

My opinion is that "transparency" is not your quest or crusade...it's your meal ticket! And, I for one do not intend to punch any more holes in it for you.

I regret getting drawn into this ...eh......debate. It was your game, you had all the marbles. I lowered myself to your level and apologize to the AR Community if anyone saw something in me that was distasteful....I have realized that I did, as such this is most of my reason for this final post.

Jeff C.......Have a nice life....I have asked for forgiveness in my contempt for you!

Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 12 years ago

You give me too much credit. 

It is you, the cynic, who deserves the applause.  

Don't credit me for lowering yourself, you swipe from the gallows trying to knock me down...never once addressing the issue at hand...The disclosures of YSP, what their intent and purpose is.  

Finally, sorry if I ripped your meal ticket...you can still use it, you just can't be a pig about it anymore.  

There is no forgiveness for contempt or envy, or sloth, or greed, or gluttony...at least you will be where your friends are, Ron....   

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

http://activerain.com/blogsview/20241/A-Real-Rain-Maker 

My Follow Up Post, it case you couldn't find it.... 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Jeff,

You had mentioned that you were working on establishing a business relationship with UMBs.

I have emailed the President and Treasurer and he has not heard of you, so I am wondering what that is all about.  Any comment?

Posted by Robert D. Ashby, Turning Visions into Photographs (and Videos) (Visual Approach Aerial Photography (Visual Approach Photography)) over 12 years ago
Comment: I have had superficial email conversations with J Guttentag (the 'anti American' Pinko) regarding his thoughts on XBroker and potential affiliation. There you go. Keep digging. End of comment.
Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
:O)
Posted by "The Lovely Wife" (Broker Bryantnulls Wife) The One And Only TLW. (President-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.) over 12 years ago

Let me clarify real quick...I have nothing but praise for JG and his UMB principles...the anti-American slogan was derived from others comment threads....

Thx... 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

It would seem all this would be made much easier with the use of a simple mortgage contract that the borrower and mortgage broker sign that states how the YSP will be handled....

 

http://mortgagecontract.com/

Posted by AJ Martin (none) over 12 years ago
AJ.......  a contract?    You do you know about the playing field that was mentioned in here?  How about a true Banker....  ??  They don't need to disclose anything. What about a client that gets a great deal and with a better rate and lower costs.... but that lender's YSP is still higher. Would it matter in this case?  It's one thing to be trasparent.... but what about comparing apples to apples? Not all deals or clients are the same. And many lenders treat them the same...giving some a deal that can't be closed. Why don't we attack this problem first?  Just a FYI....
Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

There is no silver bullet to this however having a written agreement between buyers and mortgage brokers would be a good step towards 

1. disclosure and education about YSP

2. transparency for the transaction

 

 

Posted by AJ Martin (none) over 12 years ago

I agree with Jeff c that the natural evolution in the mortgage business is most likely a flat fee mortgage

Guttentag is retiring and not marketing the UMBs anymore on his site.  He aligned with Amerisave out of Atlanta - they are an upfront mortgage LENDER - supposedly.... 

 

Posted by AJ Martin (none) over 12 years ago

the exact words.... supposedly......   hey, there has to be a profit margin in most loans.......  sure, there can be a flat fee per se...... but it won't work often because of the nature of the business. Many deals take lots of work....and you won't get someone to do sub prime loans with flat fees.....  if you ever read any of my comments....there have been some deals I basically did for free... yes, almost free......  meaning.....  $1,500 total...but because my goal was to get that person into the house and not just say.....oh well, you can't get this mortgage now, because I am not making much. YOU will get this..... it's a fact.

So, my whole point is, some people need to watch how this push these flat fee mortgages....  you need to look at the whole picture and not just the easy 700 credit score with 20% down client........ and lots of assets. My opinion.......  but when pushing what is on paper to a client, are they still getting the best deal?  My point on this.... the client wants a 30 yr fixed rate with no points. Okay.... so your flat fee model can give them this good deal.... but is that loan actually good for them?  Did you get their goals, understand that there are more programs out there that might be better. This is the part that I have a problem with the flat fee companies. They will not get true value and sometimes service will be lacking. Again, these are facts that have been proven.  ANd these are things that don't get mentioned...... but just price and transparency. So this makes me wonder who is actually better off and who knows what they are talking about.  Overall....just another way to get in front of the client, making yourself looking better.... but is it good?

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

"Many deals take lots of work....and you won't get someone to do sub prime loans with flat fees"

 

what is the main factor that makes a deal "take lots of work"?  why won't you do subprime? 

Posted by AJ Martin (none) over 12 years ago
huh?  can you explain further.... not sure what you are trying to  say and I don't want to assume. Is this a question?  A statement?  thanks
Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago
I never said I won't do sub prime. I said....  with this model, it won't work with most sub prime deals. But then again, you never mentioned what the flat fee would be either. With that hole left wide open, this conversation isn't going any where. Think about it.....  as I have stated before....each deal is different and you will not always get true quality and sometimes the best deal under a set fee......  does it work, yes, but we are not defining anything here, just generalizing...which can make this discussion go round and round.....  been there done it.   Right Jeff C.??  lol
Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Yeah, things can get pretty crazy in this post real quick...

We are getting close to releasing some news about The XBroker project within the next few weeks...this will support my position better than going round again ;)

AJ...Jack was ahead of his time...there was no real way to verify the facts he laid out and brokers had no real incentive to do business the way he laid out... Transparency in Lending is an evolving business model of Jacks UMB's....

We hope to further The Mortgage Professors cause ;) 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago
Jeff C, what about Jeff B?  ;o(   I did receive your e-mail...... we'll talk more later.
Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

I'm way late on this blog, Jeff, sorry, but whereas I am quite fine with YSPs I think the disclosure rules need to be tightened up and in cases where the mortgage broker acts as a warehousing agent there needs to be some way to call out what they get in the YSP, since it gets buried beyond the HUD-1 in that case.  Thanks for the post.

Posted by Gabriel Silverstein, SIOR (Angelic Real Estate, LLC) over 12 years ago
Gabriel...... why?  match rates and fees... shop it well.....   what people are failing to realize is that you need to find someone that you can trust...... even if they showed the YSP..... it won't change the bait and switching that goes on. Use the APR as your disclosure.....  again, just my opinions. Sure, there is an issue when it comes to transparency...but you will never get rid of the liars and dishonest brokers....  bottom line. Sure, you can try.....   besides.. the YSP is one taking the risk also....
Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

an actual conversation i have had with a client recently. and have had very similar just like it a lot of times.

Borrower: So, how much are you making on the loan?

Me: I will be pricing this so I can obtain about 1.5% of the loan amount in fees to me. You can pay up front or in the rate.

Borrower: Whatever you think is best.

 

many people think loan officers can survive on 1%..... i even had a realtor get uppity with me for gouging 'her client' at 3 points on a $75K deal(that was hard to do)<== it wasnt her client. it was MY client.

 

 

Posted by Tom Burris, Texas/Louisiana Mortgage Pro - 13 YRS Experience (NMLS# 335055) over 12 years ago

Tom...% based commission models are ambiguous and slippery...I prefer a flat fee, established shortly after a pre-qual is achieved.  

I find that borrowers often know what questions to ask but dont know what the correct answers are...which makes the questions meaningless.  

1% on a $100k loan wont keep many originators afloat for long.

1% on a $500k loan will.   

 

...and I agree with you re: the Realtors choice of the word 'gouging'...3% @ 75k = $2250, a reasonable fee for sound services....yet another example of the inefficiency in marketing % based fee schedules...and isn't that (3%) what she charges 'her clients' too? ;)

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

hey Aj......  the only problem with these.......  go read the first 3 that you have links for. Each one uses such words as USUALLY not.....    sometimes......    and one person goes on to say that they have 780 lenders that they can use. NOW..... Jeff C. and I have talked through e-mails. We both know where we stand. In these cases that you present. There are still holes.....  and a few talk about rebates when it comes to YSP...but they never mention how you would know. One mentioned that their flat fee is based on a specific core of programs and might change if different.

So..my whole point, I would put money on it, if I was able to audit EVERY file, that you would not see consistency.  These are other forms of advertising to get people in. You can sit here and fight the notion everytime, sending links and such. But I have come across a company or two that has had this method and they aren't always true to what they state. And these are facts. Facts that aren't disclosed on these web pages. And not all loans will fall into a flat fee based on difficulty, hence the reason why some of these web pages have clauses stating this, but in such a manner, if you don't know anything of how the mortgage business works....  you won't know when it's explained differently.

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 12 years ago

Jeff B. makes a sound point...

DiTech has a $395 Flat Fee loan too...its a real doosy ;) The Disturbing Truth

 

There are some UMB's out there and others who employ similar practices, just not enough, and few of them market effectively. 

I appreciate these links however, I see some of my work out there   lol 

 

Posted by Jeff Corbett (BoomTown) over 12 years ago

Hey Jeff,

 

I am a wholesale rep and my brokers have been sending me these all week.

 

 

 
Petition for "NO to HR3915"
I know you have probably seen this but just in case...
 
The U.S. House Committee on Financial Services is considering Bill H.R. 3915 as a response to the housing crisis. One of its two main provisions is to prohibit brokers from earning even disclosed YSP.   Already brokers must disclose YSP, while banks don't. Under this law, brokers may not even earn it. H.R. 3915 will eventually put most brokerages our of business - not just the few players who shoehorned unqualified buyers into risky loans.  This bill harms small lenders with niche product and limited retail operations, the brokers who find customers for those products, and the first time homebuyers and current homeowners who are renters without the options the broker channel offers.This legislation is going to committee for a vote next Tuesday and then will be fast-tracked to the House floor -- unless we stop it. We believe that any of your friends outside the industry will want to sign when they find out that the Committee is rushing this through to minimize public comment. We talked with a Committee staffer who admitted that three staffers have been working on this for months. Yet the Committee only released the proposed bill on Oct. 22. Certainly given the size, complexity and importance of this industry, the public should be given more time to comment.Please visit and add your name to the petition @ http://www.petitiononline.com/HR3915/petition.html.   If you already have, call the bill's sponsors and tell them what you think of getting the rap for a housing crisis that you didn't cause but can help solve. The bill's sponsors are:
Posted by Ron Avneri, Financial Professional over 11 years ago

Just a thought.  If bankers could not earn a premium why would they lend you money????? for a long term investment?? Maybe....   Right along side of a 10 year prepayment penalty. Im with you on this one. I think everyone should work for free. i'll trade my days work for that bag of apples. :)  It takes a lot of work to get a loan closed and a lot of expenses as well. If loan officers through out the Country told their clients they were required to pay 2k up front do you think as many people would purchase homes. You think the market is sluggish now?????

- sorry guys - in a hurry - didnt check spelling  - if you want details on this subject shoot me an e-mail

Posted by Michael Carter over 11 years ago

I can't let this one go...  Dude... you are so lost, it's amazing.

First of all, the analogy and math you are using is about something in the range of First Base foul line when you were swinging for centerfield.

On a typical conforming or government-backed loan, 1% in yield spread would raise the rate about 0.125% to 0.250%.  

The vast majority of borrowers are first time home buyers, and walk in wanting to do zero down, because they have no money.  ALL loans are sold into the capital markets... I don't care if it is Chase & Wells Fargo, they sell them too and retain servicing rights.  They need to recoup their capital. 

There is no money in the interest collected, no one is going to hold the loan more than a few days.  The fees are whay drives the mortgage industry, thus the current meltdown.  If banks were in it for the interest payments, they certainly have a *ssload of loans on the books and it shouldn't be a problem.  Correction, they have no new loans coming in, so no fees.

Do you work for free?   Does your employer stay in business just for their good health and public donation? I don't care if you work for a non-profit... those guys make more than anyone.

The reality is, there is a cost to being in business, there is a cost to having a bank of loan processors, there is a cost to thousands of dollars in advertising, even for a small brokerage, and there is a cost to compensating a good loan officer. 

If the real cost is about 4% on the loan to be in business, and the borrower wants something like a 3% FHA deal, and they are struggling with that, how else do we make a living for ensuring the American dream happens?

If the Realtor needs 3% for working out of their house, and their main expense being a cell phone, how in the heck does a bank and mortgage brokerage office stay in business making $500 a deal?

WE by default use the YSP as a tool to earn the compensation we need.   There is no "PAR" rate... I can look at 5 different rate sheets from 5 different lenders and have the variance between 6.125% and 2% in rebate compared to 6.125% and a discount cost to the borrower of 1%.

There is a value in knowing how to shop the deal... and there is a value in having the relationships from lenders that will compensate some brokers with high reputations than they will others for the same deal.

The banks earn 2-3% on each file when securtized... why shouldn't that be compensated to the team and individual that found the borrower and created the file? It's called -RETAIL-.

Do you think Walmart doesn't make 50% on everything they sell?  Those 125,000 sq foot stores don't fall out of trees...

I'll give anyone a great deal if they or the seller on the contract pays my fee.. if they don't, I'm not going to waste 3 seconds on it and their not going to be buying a home, because no one else will either.

Posted by Scott Johnson (Better Homes Realty Granite Bay) almost 11 years ago

Your quoting of statistics is skewed, the vast majority of mortgages are originated in California, Florida, and New York... the places with the highest cost of living in comparison to the average income of the consumer.

If you are in Bumfuck West Texas buying an $80,000 house with a $50,000 income, you may very well be able to pay a couple of points.

If you are in San Francisco, buying a $700,000 1 bedroom condo, on a $70,000 income, you probably can't afford to pay $10k in closing costs, you are probably struggling with the $23,000 down payment.

Loan officers will quote the fees and rate after seeing what the borrower can pay for.  If they have $500 in the checking account, we are not going to bother offering buy-downs.

It also doesn't matter if it is a $700,000 loan, or a $50,000 loan, it's the same amount of paperwork.  If anything, the small ones tend to be harder.   If the borrower doesn't have any money, and the loan amount is very small, to be honest, they are going to pay a very high rate, as there is nothing we can do about the hard cost of being in business.  

To date, any client will squeal at anything higher than about 1% in fees, but we realistically have a 3% revenue target to be in business. 

Posted by Scott Johnson (Better Homes Realty Granite Bay) almost 11 years ago

@ Scott from California Veterans....  you wrote this... "On a typical conforming or government-backed loan, 1% in yield spread would raise the rate about 0.125% to 0.250%."

Not once in my 16 yr career have I seen the rate change only 1/8% with a 1% in yield spread. Even 1/4% hardly ever happens. The rule of thumb in most cases is about 3/8 of a point for every 1/8% in rate.  Sure, there are some coupons that might be an 1/8 point to get to the next rate. That would be cheap for the consumer, if you pass this onto them. But if you are getting 1 ysp and your rate changed an 1/8%....  I would get a new investor.  Just my .02.

Overall, you make some good points, about the lower loan amounts. Jeff just has a different concept that he is trying to promote. In today's business, you can't operate a full office with little money.

jeff belonger

Posted by Jeff Belonger, The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans ( Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) almost 11 years ago

Wow, and it was in 2006!. What a discussion. It is way over my head, I know very little to nothing about these things, but what an incredible discussion on AR.

I thik we got way more shallow now

Posted by Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL, Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices (Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408) almost 9 years ago

Wow did this actually happen?  I can see why Bryant remembered it -- who could forget it?

I guess the Fed had the last word though.

Posted by Tni LeBlanc, Realtor®, J.D., Tenacious Tni (805) 878-9879 (Mint Properties, Lic. #01871795) over 8 years ago

This...

Is certainly a blast from the past. It was also AR's first real blog war :)

It's also how many of us came to know XBroker. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say we miss him.

TLW...ROAR!

Posted by "The Lovely Wife" (Broker Bryantnulls Wife) The One And Only TLW. (President-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.) over 8 years ago

2004 NBA All-Star Week-end Ram Dunk Contest sera se tiendra à Los Angeles au Staples stade mis en scène 15 Février souffrir pour ruban bleu peser récit , fantaisie une partie de l' précédente pilori dunk roi royal de présence.
http://www.scitotalfitness.com/wp-includes/images/fun/air-jordan-6.html

Posted by peterbb almost 5 years ago

Participate