Who is to blame for the housing and mortgage markets undoing depends on who you ask. Consumers blame everyone, brokers blame banks, banks blame brokers, appraisers are in the cross-hairs, even real estate professionals are not immune to the finger pointing...I think Michael Jackson had something to do with it all, but I can't prove that.
We need to blame someone, so I ask the echo chamber: Who were the architects and engineers that created and enabled all of 'this'? Before I answer, lets use the drug trade for my first analogy.
Who are the real criminals in the illicit drug trade? The users, the street level pushers, or the cartels who manufacture and make the drugs available aka The Enablers? One could make legitimate arguments that all are to fault for varying degrees. If users didn't use, pushers couldn't push and manufacturers would be out of business cause there is no demand for the product...yet that's more tail wagging the dog. IMHO thou who enables is at the root of fault.
In theory, if the enablers didn't produce the illicit product in the first place, there would be no pusher or user. The banks and other institutions who engineered the easy to acquire, downright addictive financial products framed an environment where unchecked growth dominated, deceit was rewarded and ethical business practitioners were punished.
Unchecked Growth is Bad, mmkay?Follow me into more analogymnastics...What is uncontrolled growth called in the human body? Cancer. Without an internal system of checks and balances and proper detection techniques cancer manifests silently, usually until its too late when the organism has been consumed, ravaged to (near) death. You picking up what I'm putting down? Mortgage industry hell bent on growth until it consumed itself and imploded *pffft*
How is cancer treated? Traditionally with chemotherapy- an indiscriminate, very thoughtless killer of all things living. Wipe everything out and hopefully the body regenerates enough good cells to recuperate. This is effectively what's happening to the mortgage industry- important aspects have been or are being primed for indiscriminate eradication. As nonsensical as mortgage qualification standards were just over a year ago, so are the proposed 'fixes' being introduced via legislation.
Self-medication is a bad idea, thus charging the same people who architected the demise of entire institutions with implementing a cure is a bad idea, mmmkay? Medicine has evolved by studying and understanding what makes organisms tick on very (very) micro levels- further, how small thoughtful changes in the right places can cause substantial improvements. Business, industry as a whole, needs to adopt similar methodologies of implementing micro-evolutionary change rather than blow it all away, Bruce Willis-Die Hard style.
We will protect you, promise. What is currently being proposed by law makers as solutions to the mortgage mess is incestuous at best. These changes are couched as 'protective measures for the consumer', which is a bunch of bullshit, seeing that the new Home Value Code of Conduct (HVCC) and H.R. 1728's proposal to ban Yield Spread Premiums serve to do nothing of the sort. Instead they will (try to) eliminate the mortgage broker, compromise the real estate professional and ultimately harm the consumer...all for the banks gain.
Think that our policy makers in Washington wouldn't let such things happen? Think again...after all, they've invested heavily in these institutions that are 'too big to fail'.
X...
I think Madonna had something to do with it, but I can't prove that :)
P.S. This oughta be fun. I remembered to bring my popcorn this time :)
TLW...ROAR!
I'm second to say YEAH, what he said!
PS - I love the monkey with a gun picture. I have worked with people who look about that speed...
Business, industry as a whole, needs to adopt similar methodologies of implementing micro-evolutionary change rather than blow it all away, Bruce Willis-Die Hard style.
Needs to ?
Not in this Congress or Administration.
They haven't a clue....
I TOTALLY agree with you, 100%- THE ENABLERS are the bad guys and we need some SERIOUS micro-reform on EVERY aspect of the banking industry. I am just hoping that you don't say mmmkay in person as much as you said it in your blog. ; )
It all starts with the users Jeff, that is where the demand emanates from.
I would be ok with the govt. banning yield spread premium if they also banned the banks from earning overages (the banking equivalent of yield spread premium, which is legal to hide from the consumer, unlike the former). Chances are they won't be that balanced though.
Wow, controversial topic, but I have got to stick with the demand issue. People were (are) willing to be oblivious to their financial situation and someone (Wall Street, perhaps?) found a way to fulfill a need and make some money (on paper, anyhow). People are still craving zero down and low (no) doc loans so they can purchase. (the low doc issue is another issue altogether)
I worked in the subprime loan business and there are some basic fundamentals that should never be ignored: Skin in the game (down payment) and stable income with lowish ratios come to mind. Great post. I hope you don't get lambasted...
Jeff !!
... just say what you really think next time
I am thinking all these proposed fixes are just so surface level and shallow, that we may, instead, be prolonging the problems rather than slowly fixing them.
Only time will tell, but we need John Maclane to step in and clean house a little me thinks ...
Yippee Ki Yayyyyyy !
Cheers Jeff !
Sheldon
YSP is not evil. It is there to give the consumer options. Sometimes you would rather finance what you pay to your mortgage broker and YSP allows you to do this. Sometimes you'd rather pay in cash and paying a point allows you to do this.
"Protecting the consumer" always means the consumer pays either in layers of administration, or in loss of choice. HVCC...what a perfect example.
Jeff... Too big to fail was never the way competitive business designed to succeed, but now if you have enough cronies in high places deeply invested you can do no wrong.
Great blog Jeff and great analogies...
Without a doubt I blame the drugs. As in "What were they smoking when........." I was researching some land today in what was "the place to buy" in 2003-2005. Back then lots were being bought for $200,000 and sold the same day for $350,000. Some sold for as high as $550,000. These are building lots that are mostly 50x100.
Today.....there are 174 on the market, mostly REOs and short sales, starting as low as......drum roll please......$15,000!!!! That's right $15,000. I saw one with a mortgage on it of $325,000 being offered as a short sale AT $19,000.
Greed?
I wonder how much money the mortgage companies have truly lost? There's a whole bunch of mortgages that are still being paid. MI companies are eating a big chunk of the losses. Tax write offs probably eat another big chunk. Tha bail out money is still sitting there or is being used to buy up more banks. I bet their losses are no where near what they want us to think. It's all smoke and mirrors.
Great analogies! For cancer, sometimes they CUT it out. Strategically remove the bad stuff. That's what I recommend.
And bailing out banks was pure enabling.
The FEAR is the same. The fear of cancer, the fear of the power of the drug cartels, the fear of what's happening in the real estate industry. I have had cancer and I was very afraid. I am a Realtor (17 years) and I am very afraid.
Jeff - Great use of profanity in all the right spots. I think I loved the fact that the title had the "F" word in it the most.
Think that our policy makers in Washington wouldn't let such things happen? Think again...after all, they've invested heavily in these institutions that are 'too big to fail'.
You're dead on with this one! This is the reason the Merrill Lynch and B of A deal closed. I just wonder how long they think we are just going to sit back and take it.
The root of the problem was the in demand.
I made this offer on another post and surprise, surprise, nobody took me up on it.
I'll give $1,000 to anyone that was "forced" to buy a home. You can add as many zero's on to my offer as you want. because it wont matter.
NOBODY EVER FORCED ANYONE TO BUY A HOME!!!!! Enablers are there just to satisfy the demand.
Did you somewhere in your rant, blame the mortage companies? Seriously?
Thx for the thoughtful comments...great insight.
@andrew: Agreed, no one was forced to buy a home or take out a mortgage...everyone willingly lined up for their perceived right of homeownership. There is still demand, I would argue more so than ever as people NEED new mortgages to afford their exisitng homes as opposed to WANTing a new home...so what happened to the enablers to fullfill this demand?
As I asked in my post, who are the real culprits- the drug producers or the drug consumers?
Hey Jeff- We seem to have a big problem getting bank asset managers to under stand the mortgage time frames to get something closed hear in New York!
Jeff- I think that everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions.
When I got divorced, the only kind of loan I could get was a subprime with 20% down and no income verification and no tax returns. I got the loan, paid a high interest rate- that was in 1998. I am still in the same home and we are not upside down and even if we were, it was my choice to buy this home and it is my home. I am not moving, I am not complaining. I am grateful for a mortgage broker and my broker who sold me her home, to make a safe haven from an abusive x that my kids could call a safe home. The days of those loans were good to me and I took personal responsibility and I make my payments.
Drugs? I am extremely conservative but I wasn't always so. I was a wild teenager like many and my mother was a drugged out hippy brilliant genius who also liked to drink.
Is it the moonshiners or the alcoholics? Is is the hooker or the trick? Is it the drugs or the drug dealer? I think that as long as humans are humans- they will look for a high or an escape or a relief whether that is gambling, drugs, alchohol, smoking, caffeine, high fructose corn syrup. I think people who blame enablers all the time don't want to accept responsibility.
Temptations are always there. It is our free choice that decides not an enabler. If the product we desire is there we need to exersise self discipline. It is like when I told my kids, you need to know the answer before your friends ask you to smoke or take drugs. It is a matter of free agency and how you choose to use it. Katerina
Everybody was at fault. It was good old american greed that created this perfect storm of the housing collapse.
Jeff, sign me up buddy!! I could go on all night this burns me up so much, so I'll just go with two:
In the drug trade I'd argue the culprits are the users Jeff. However, the entities involved in the mortgage money supply chain are mostly regulated in one fashion or another thus I believe the culprits of the mortgage mess were the producers. I can't tell you how many times I had a BANK wholesale rep sit in my office telling me how to just lie about a client's income and you know they were coached by their managers as well.
Now I'm started I need to add another - a few months back the Spokesman-Review runs a huge front page "news article" about Sterling Savings Bank and their mortgage subsidiar Golf Savings offering consumers a 3.99% 30 year fixed mortgage. Sounds real community like of them doesn't it? Then you read the small print - borrower must put 20% down AND purchase a home that is currently unsold inventory from one of the builders Sterling lent contruction money to. What the F*ck?!! Let's get this right - Sterling makes bad loans to builders who go belly up, get some TARP gravvy from good old Uncle Sam (yours and my tax dollars), and then roll out this "special loan" program that directly competes with...me.
But banks are good and brokers bad. Right?
If chemo is to wipe out the cancer, then perhaps a nuclear or atomic bomb would work wonders on improving things . . . . maybe not ;-)
Just a postscript: It wasn't clear to the average person that the "enablers" were peddling something dangerous. Most people do not understand economics or market dynamics (myself included, because there are so many variables that the average person has no knowledge of). So when interest rates became super low, who in their right mind would not refinance? If someone had been priced out of the market for their entire lives and now there was a vehicle to allow them to get into the market and Alan Greenspan said everything was hunky-dory, who would argue? Just jump in and let the good times roll (or just have a house to call a home).
That scenario explains a significant population of buyers, I believe, who thought somehow that they could now afford home ownership. What is not so clear to me is if some/many/most mortgage brokers knew what was going on and took advantage of people anyway. I have no way of knowing what mortgage brokers perceptions were.
I do know that some buyers were given the interest only option for five years, and that seemed like a good thing at the time. I don't know what their thought process was for what would happen at the end of five years, but they probably thought they could refinance and would have the equity to do so. Of course that last bit was the problem for many people who took advantage of low interest rates and creative loan products.
So, exactly who were the enablers? Who knew what, when? Do you know the answer to that?
"cancer manifests silently, usually until its too late when the organism has been consumed, ravaged to (near) death."
Ya, aren't we near ravaged to death already? Not just in the banking instance but there are several other concerns. now.
[who are the real culprits- the drug producers or the drug consumers?]
YES.
This is a 'chicken or egg' question that has been posed and can be debated ad infinitum ad nauseum. And still there will be no definitive.
When growth goes unchecked, it is exactly what a cancer is. The body's natural defenses turning upon itself, thinking it is doing the right thing. No immunity. All immunity. There need to be checks and balances in EVERYTHING or Nature and the Universe WILL check and balance it.
And here we are.
What is uncontrolled growth called in the human body?
Well, adolescence but I get your drift. :)
Instead they will (try to) eliminate the mortgage broker, compromise the real estate professional and ultimately harm the consumer...all for the banks gain.
Mortgage brokers are already on life support, Jeff; we just don't know it yet. Depository lenders already have a distinct margin advantage over correspondent lenders and can deal the final blow to the broker channel by shutting down warehouse lending. They won't do it because they don't have the capacity.
Expect a YSP cap of .5%, elimination of non-depository lenders, and the rise of the regional banks as mid-market guvvie lenders. That will be the new funding source for mortgage brokers and guvvies will be the only product left we have to sell...for about 5-7 years
I've spent the weekend reading blogs. Trying to think of what style of writing gets the most thought provoking responses. I love what I call "soapbox material", you got it going on here, I love it.
You need to go right to the top of the money machine and get rid of the Federal Reserve. They are ultimately responsible for creating the cancer.
You also need to close down all of the banks that are insolvent. Unfortunately that would be the majority of them. The FDIC is broke but if you allow these failed banks to continue, they are only going to take more risks and eventually create a much bigger loss which will have to be picked up by the taxpayer in the form of higher taxes or a diminished dollar.
Now the banks have us concerned they will use it to adjust the loans and the process to make it difficult and more expensive for the consumer. They have a powerful lobby and if we don't speak up shame on us.
Wow! Got the message loud and clear and agree whole heatedly. Love the graphics and especially the analogies to the drug trade. I guess it's not such a bad business model afterall. I mean if it emulates our home growm American Banking policies and procedures it's got to be a great model. Right?
Jeff - BRAVO! Great post and interesting analogies Jeff.
"Instead they will (try to) eliminate the mortgage broker, compromise the real estate professional and ultimately harm the consumer...all for the banks gain. Think that our policy makers in Washington wouldn't let such things happen? Think again...after all, they've invested heavily in these institutions that are 'too big to fail'."
That pretty much says it all. Now that the government owns a significant interest in the big, national, retail banks, they have to insure that these banks succeed and what better way than to wipe out the competition.
Hi Jeff -- Big money almost always wins out, unfortunately. Until there is a cohesive and massive effort, the little guy doesn't get a big voice.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention - I was surprised to see it's already passed the House, waiting on the Senate. Grassroots movement needed to stop it! Info Site:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1728
There is a facebook group devoted to defeating this bill, let's DO SOMETHING. Some of the items listed on this bill are not evil and actually do protect the consumer where they need it; but you can't eliminate a section of the free market just because the other parts 'feel right'. My slogan 'You can't legislate against stupidity' - signing a mortgage without reading the document is...stupid. It's not the governments job to eliminate a section of the market in the effort that consumers will no longer have to read...
These analogies really put things in perspective. Expect the government to protect my industry or the consumers? Why should I?
Excellent insights Jeff. Interesting your reference to MJ in your 1st paragraph - with the news headline today that his death being ruled a homicide. Same question you pose - do you blame him for his apparent insatiable demand for drugs to make him sleep, or the doctor who supplied it? Oh - and I am a huge fan of the man who I considered the greatest entertainer EVER.
As mentioned by others - you can't have one without the other. Your title says it all....
Jeff, there's plenty of blame to go around. However, the consumers would not have been able or interested in coming to the party if the party didn't have a cheap entry fee. I believe it would have been the people who make the rules who started the mess. As an example, look at what is happening now. The party is over. If you want to play house, you'd better have real money and real credit.
Awesome post Jeff. I think it was "chicken little"! If the banks wouldn't have turned a blind eye on things like "no doc" loans and would not have allowed "stated income" thus enabling then those people would not have wanted nor gotten a mortgage. And I want you to consider two more groups, "the Fed (the real enabler), and the Media (gas for the fire). The media is probably most to blame for fueling the fire. First they said "own the american dream" and pushed the envelope by telling virtually everyone in earshot that they could buy a house. The Fed made money so affordable for the enablers to increase profits and offer more options to allow even more people to buy homes. GREED? Your damned right it was greed and from first hand experiences, local mortgage brokers got things done when a conventional lender wouldn't look at it and there were always additional junk fees.
Just one man's opinion.
We coulda shared the same mother...(mostly) well put.
The real blame goes to Wall Street and the ratings agencies that said "Its a mortgage, it must be Tripple A rated" Thus allowing questionable product out on the street. The bad side: NOT ALL MORTGAGES were bad, There was just the wrong mortgage for the wrong person. So many people signed on the dotted line agreeing to a payment that they could NEVER EVER afford, yet the consumer is never at fault. Financial Darwinism folks. Some people just are not smart enough to borrow money. Yes, shame on the bad mortgage guy that did not say, or ask: "are you comfortable with this payment?" But most of them are out of the business now, and the mess they left has caused over regulation that serves NO ONE.
I could go on, but these are a recent few that had good intentions but ultimately add time and cost to a transaction with no real benefit to anyone.
OK, my rant is done!
Brian Brady, I wish you would comment more often around here. I think you are right. Writing on the wall.
What's it gonna take in this great country? They have been bought in DC plain and simple and they call us Nazis when we go to a hall meeting or a tea party. Until the voters get rid of some of the scum and show them that there is indeed a door, this will continue, so there!
If no one used the drugs, they wouldn't make them...
These comments are really blowing me away. Am I the only person left in the world that still believes in personal responsibity? Seriously? Blaming others? The last I checked, there is still a word in the English language and it's a simple two letter word NO. No I don't want a loan I can't pay for in 3,5,7 years. No, that house is way beyond my budget, NO, I don't need 5 condo's in Vegas, NO even if the bank gives me free crack, I don't want it. NO, that house costs $1mil, and I make 50k per year. etc. etc.
Get the point?
Can someone who likes to blame everyone else but themselves, explain to me how that concept is working out for them?
These comments are really blowing me away. Am I the only person left in the world that still believes in personal responsibity?
Well, youre partially correct, Andrew. A few years back, we found out that tobacco really was addictive, the tobacco companies knew and and withheld it, and increased their advertising to teenagers. Would it be appropriate to let them run the anti-smoking campaigns? I think that's the message Jeff's getting across.
Jeff: I totally agree with you. The lender only provided the products that the consumers wanted. And consumer them they did! It's not the mortgage brokers or the Realtors fault, we just provided a service that the consumers wanted.
As for the fix, I don't think that ratical surgery is always the answer. And I hate the blame game.
Jeff - LMAO over Andrew's comment. AMEN Andrew! While I don't know the answer to the question "Who were the architects and engineers that created and enabled all of 'this'?, I do agree that anyone making the monumental decision to purchase a home should have been absolutely clear as to what they were getting themselves into and should have been responsible enough not to get into something they couldn't afford. Granted, that requires that we (Realtors & LO's) be able to assist them with making smart choices and decisions. In other words, WE NEED TO CONSTANTLY BE EDUCATING OUR CLIENTS!
Personally, I never sold a neg-am loan but not because I think they're bad loans, they just weren't the right kind of loan product for any of my clients (low-medium income borrowers). Pay option plan loans are good loans for the right borrower who is capable of managing it properly and responsibly. Same goes for stated loans and adjustable loans.
Fortunately for me, only one of my previous clients has ever had to sell (short sale) their home because they could no longer afford to keep it and it wasn't because the loan had adjusted out of their budget (it was a 30frm). They had to sell it because the primary wage earner became ill and couldn't work.
For the rest of my previous clients, I always tried to make sure that they weren't getting in over their heads. I made sure that my clients were in realistic dti ratios for their situation and always encouraged reserves in the bank. Just because a loan product allows you to go to 60% dti with no reserves doesn't mean you should push that on your clients who make 50k a year and have very little reserves.
Anyway, sorry for the long comment but Andrew makes a valid point, it's so important (now more than ever) that we (Realtors & LO's) advise our clients in making responsible and sensible decisions when deciding on the right house and loan for them.
@Brian- Correct, as usual...
@Andrew- If consumers said no, we wouldn't be in this mess. If Wall Street didn't create volatile liquidity in the MBS markets, we wouldn't be in this mess. If banks didn't provide the mortgage products to consumers who had no business getting a mortgage, we wouldn't be in this mess. If conduits didn't send out their army of commission thirsty Account Executives waving $$ incentives to LO's to hawk a pulse and social security number into a mortgage, we wouldn't be in this mess. If brokers didn't sell mortgages simply to close a transaction and make money, we wouldn't be in this mess. If real estate agents didn't push the 'American Dream of Homeownership' as a right rather than a privilege, we wouldn't be in this mess.
As I said, there is enough blame to go around for everyone to get their fill. It would have been great if the rest of the world shared your knowledge, will-power and ability to say no, but they didnt and so we are in this mess.
Alas, blaming in retrospect is a waste of time.
So, my point isn't so much backward looking, as it is forward facing. The lenders and their cronies in DC are blaming everyone except themselves and are about to run roughshod over the industry to eliminate competition and reduce choice.
This post was a prologue to 3 more articles talking about what can be done going forward to correct this mess...which involves both nos and yeses...as well as alot of support from mortgage brokers, real estate professionals, appraisers and most importantly consumers....
HVCC has only messed us up even MORE, not less. The industry is totally out of whack at this point.
Wow! What a fantastic post! Check out www.thinkbigworksmall.com , I really think you will like what these guys have to say! ALSO if everyone has not already GO SIGN THE HVCC petition PLEASE!!!
My mom used to say if it seems "too good to be true" then it may not be. I used to look around me, and it appeared that mom may have been wrong for a lot of people whether it was get rich schemes, drugs but no abuse, no money down homes, day trading....the list just goes on. Now that I am at a place of hindsight I definitely believe my mom was right. So if you want my theory on it - it was one thing to have cocaine and but then there was crack. Did we really have to inflate the prices SO much? (pardon me but a 200K in Atlanta used to be a great home opposed to a starter home until the Olympics came but I digress). Did we have to offer NO money down and then a high interest rate? Why is it the same lenders that made these subprime loans won't modify them. I guess the same reason the pusher won't help you kick the habit. It appears we may be on our own.
Great post.
Nice point Katrina
We need to ALL take responsibility for ourselves - If homeowners were not trying to get something for nothing, if banks weren't trying to get something for nothing, if brokers gave professional advice that consumers took..... if only....
So this was the post that inspired a post ranting about your use of the F word in the title.
I'm glad I came over to read it.
Good analogies, and your point that we need to look forward on how to fix things is very well taken...
Oh, what all the people bummed out about your choice of words have missed....
Jeff: I find the fact that you used "F*cked" in the title offensive. Why ? Because it reflects on me, and on all Realtors on Active Rain. I can see by the comments that there are few, if any others who are bothered by your title... but I am. Am I a prude ? I don't think so. Am I a conservative living in a fairy tale world ? Noper. I just find it inappropriate that you have used it at all. Especially in a post that is for the general public rather than a "members only" post.
I find it sad that you could not come up with another way to express your distaste with the Mortgage Industry. I think that maybe I am just getting way too old for this stuff. Did I even read your post ? Noper. I couldn't get past the title. Is that a shortcoming on my part ? Could be... but that is just me. And this... is my opinion. Thanks for listening.
Maybe when I cool off I might go back and read the post, and then comment on the substance of what you have written. Until then... it's just a little too "cute" for me.
Hi Jeff. Love your post. Sent a few invites out so the Club Chaos peeps could come read it. Might get interesting (as if it hasn't already - LOL). Looking forward to part two. :-)
I'll bring in the Michael Jackson factor . . . people blame him for being a drug addict but when an addict goes to a medical doctor for help, is it not the Dr's responsibility to just say NO? Of course an addict is going to ask for it but it is up to the professionals to say No, you can't have it, No you can't afford it ,etc.
You inspired me to write Jeff!
http://activerain.com/blogsview/1211730/the-power-of-words-the-f-word-in-everyday-life
X...
Perhaps my special word "Fluck" would have gone over better :)
It's not a swear word until I can talk the Guys at Oxford into shoving it where it needs to go :)
C Tann...
Glad to see that we got our buttons sewn back on :)
TLW...ROAR!
I have been reading thru all of this - especially about who is to blame. It seems to me that politicians bear most of the blame. Forcing FNMA and Freddie Mac to lower standards so that everyone could get financing was a dangerous slope. While everyone is entitled to own a home, not everyone is entitled to use someone else's money to finance it. A 500 fico score is not a misstep - it's a way of life.
Jeff - nice work - I love the analogies - so true. But I am sure government will protect us (lol).
I have to go check my IRA account - they said it will be better soon. Thanks, Bob
I agree with you that there is NO POINT in looking back. And IF I understand your train of thought we also agree that the idiots in Washington are not realy "fixing" anything.
Heathen.
@TLW u kill me lady, in the best of ways :-)
@Erica: awsome! Apparently Ive inspired a few people to write :)
@C Tann oh boy, not the club chaos folks! ::runs for cover::
Again, thx to all for the thoughtful comments...glad ya'll made it past the title ;-)
Hi Jeff - Came off Carolyn's club Chaos invite. Great read.
I was a builder before a real estate agent (still am) so I'm pretty sure that I'm partly to blame. I went to parochial school though so I have that guilt thing going on...
@Paul- Guilty. I blame the right side of my half-brain...
OK...after the other post going around about you being a filthy, potty mouth...I had to come read the post. Well done!!!
LMAO @ Kristi. ;-)
Really? Is the F word a BAD thing?
Ut-oh, I am in trouble.
Definitely Michael Jackson wanted the drugs, but someone had to give sell them to him. It comes down to making money over someone else's poor judgment.
And let's not forget Farah Fawcett -- she LOOKED like a nice girl, but hey -- my husband has several copies of Playboy that show different -- btw, they're for sale. Any offers?
Jeff,
I meant to comment on this the other day before this huge stream of comments.
I'd highly recommend to anyone who wants to understand the history of the mortgage industry and the mess we're in now to read the book that I'm currently finishing up:
"Our Lot: How Real Estate Came to Own Us" by Alyssa Katz -- picked it up at a bookstore while out in San Francisco.
BTW, your language doesn't offend me in the least.
I been invited by the Chaos peeps...lol Wow is all I can say, what a mouth full I am a fairly new agent so I wasn't around when the Good Times were happening, (easy money). I have seen many agents, brokers, lenders, banks disappear and I'm only assuming its because now they don't know how to do the job they were suppose to in the first place and their job description/profile has changed. The hard working people that are left to clean this up are scrambling trying to figure out what will work, like short sales, foreclosures, renting houses, and most of them have never done this before so we are all confused on HOW IT WORKS? What works? Whats broke? Who can fix it? Does not matter who broke it, IT NEEDS TO WORK AGAIN!
This is a great post with a lot of good points, Jeff. I came over for C's jack, but it really didn't need it! oh...by the way...f*ck you (LOL)
Okay...
So that's off topic. Or not? :)
Do you Guys realize they give me points for that crap? :)
TLW...ROAR!
Collecting crap points are we? Hmm... LOL @ TLW. ;-)
Crap points are the BEST! I have several thousand of them and I sleep with them under my pillow! :-)
June, I wasn't around for it either. I walked into a market that whomps. I have to really work hard every single day. I love being able to get together with my friends and play and always find it amazing to play in the Rain. ;-)
Not terribly surprised to see that there was an uproar over the use of a word as opposed to the content. Half the posts I read said the word in the title was so offensive to them they wouldn't even read the post... Maybe you need some Orbitz gum!
What I think you're missing in the article is the discussion of where the politicians/lawmakers were and why there wasn't more/hardly any/oversight from them (or from Fannie/Freddie) during the 3-5 years leading up to this mess. Not to mention some of the knee jerk reaction statutes they put into place which helped contribute to the mess (I'm thinking of mark to market). I realize talking politics will probably get you into even more trouble than an F bomb;-)
I'm anxious to read the rest of your series.
Great post and title. Worthy of a featured status. I agree whole heartedly with your premise, and politically you are correct also. The sole reason for the changes or even proposed changes in the law are to protect the political donors. It is payback time, and yes the independent mortgage broker is going to be tagged tof extinction.
Eliminating the competition is what socialism is all about. All I have to do to prove my point...is ask one question..."What bank ever beat the rates of an independent mortgage broker?' The answer is easy. None!
TLW - want to buy my husband's FF Playboy issues as a surprise gift for BB's next b'day?
MORE crap points!
ROTFLMAO @ Lori. ;-)
C Tann - as an Ambassador, you should KNOW that you need to write at least nine words in order to get CRAP points.
Seriously, the Playboys are 4 SALE -- isn't everything?
And, can you imagine how ANNOYED people will be when they google F*UCKED and get stuck reading about the mortgage industry?! That's the REAL crime!
Jeff... Have to agree that the enablers are the cuase of the woes. However, I also think that you have to go back to our lawmakers as the root of all evil. We were cruising along fine until the Franks, Dodds and Pelosis in Congress decided that they should fix it so that "every" American should be able to own a home, and changed the rules to facilitate that. Flawed premise to begin. "Every" American should NOT be a homeowner. Then they convinced the media to convince every American that they should be homeowners, whether they could afford it or not, which they did with great effectiveness.
From my perspective, everyone was sucked in by our learned lawmakers, and thus... here we are. What's worse is they're about to do it to us again!
Jeff - This post has certainly hit the proverbial hot button and stirred up some very interesting responses. I find the situation our mortgage industry is in to be much more offensive than your title.
I lean toward personal responsibility. It seems the majority in our society are under the delusion that we are not responsible for our own actions and have somehow forgotten that at some point a CHOICE was made.
THE DRUG CONSUMERS. If everyone didn't rely so heavily on a quick fix they'd have no one to feed the drugs too. Granted, some are needed. Others are fixable...just some don't like coping. Okay...I just got home from my massage therapy and acupuncture... it's helped me more than the drugs....although the drugs served their purpose at that time :)
do I get a cookie??????
Lori, nine words? Seriously? I thought it was twelve? Oh well... As a serial commenter I routinely ignore the point system (LOL).
Bill, what they have done and what they are doing scares me. I keep thinking it's going to get worse before it gets better because too many agendas and factions are dueling for power...
CTS--- thanks to you...I got here :)
Susan ... F You right back.
C Tann/Lori/TLW ... Loving this exchange. I want crap points too.
Hey guys I want to get the crap points too! (Notice exactly 10 words)
Choice was made without full disclosure or understanding by the end user. There is a personal responsibilty issue here but there were many who were misinformed or underinformed so they are responsible for buying and not understanding what they were getting themselves into but the enablers helped them along the garden path.
Sometimes a little strong language helps to make the point So I will use TLW's fav and say We all got Flucked here
Renee, you are a lot smarter than you are letting on (LOL). ;-)
Hi Sandy! :-)
Hi Erica! :-D
Hi C-Sally-C! ;-)
Judy, the "choices" are becoming absurd. I had an underwriter ask a buyer to get a letter from their job stating the buyer would be employed for the next three years. No business I know of is going to do that. Imagine it as a "you can't fire me missive 'cause I have it in writing. " What the heck are they thinking?
LOL @ Paddy. That is such an interesting word. ;-)
And, Renee got CRAP points for lack of paragraphs -- not such a dumb blonde after all!
BTW, did anyone get permission to jack this post?
Hey There C-Tann! Got a line on any of those crap points?
I don't think you need permission to highjack a post that has the F-bomb in its headline. That's a rule. Erica's Rule
Alrighty then I get back from lunch feeling all F*uffy and look what happened - the girls from CC are en mass flucking up the whole darn (whoops Sh*chks) post. You go grirls - give em he**.
Oh wait are the challenge points being given out for crap? So Erica did you post the rules in the broker group yet :)
One of my best friends in the 80s was a magazine EIC.
He has a poster in his office that shocked and disgusted some of the old timers:
THE PERFECT WORD
with examples of how the 'F' can be used as ANY part of speech: noun, adverb, adjective, interjection, etc.
There is a place for the F word, and talking about the $$ industry to me is appropriate use.
Hi Jeff ~ You certainly got more than you bargained for with your choice of title this time, didn't you? I didn't even read your post at the time, (not much for the hammer approach myself), but of course had to weigh in on it when it became an issue. Just proving the point that there is no such thing as negative publicity!:-)
My lesson for the day....Don't judge a book by it's cover, or in this case a post by it's title...
Excellent post.
Denise
Anna--I will do that as soon as I figure out how to post to the members only broker group that we are all locked out of even though we 're members. Just kidding.
We've seen a ton of folding brokers here. I've had a rampant rush of buyers in the first-time market and every one of them wanting a bank, bank, bank. I can definitely see how the brokers are going to lose their butts.
I'm not sure who is to blame - buyers, sellers, politicians, banks, etc. All I know is that eventually it HAS to right itself! I tried to stress to all my clients that they need to be able to afford the house and food too. So far, only one has run into any trouble and that was more due to being laid off. I haven't had one foreclose yet. We didn't have so much of the risky lending here in the conservative mid-west. I'm just a real estate agent bringing buyers and sellers together! I'm not smart enough to take on the woes of the whole housing industry, but boy do I hope they get it figured out...
Looking forward to the rest of the series - shocking language or not!
And hey, Lori - those still for sale? LoL!
Erica - man that s**ks when the brokers are locked out. Hey here's a load of crap do go along with the issues at hand. I've got to leave but I'm quite sure you gals will handle all this **** approiately, right? Of course.
Nice post! The discussion it has prompted has been great too.
Jeff, no wonder they want to put the Mortgage Brokers out of business. They can't find a way to Nationalize them. Who owns the bank anyway?
The majority elected to get CHANGE. Boy are we getting it.
Drugs? I thought that was an analogy. Just execute drug dealers. Wonder how many would stay in the business if we did that? They don't get jail time anyhow. No sense putting them jail. We would just have to feed and house them. That would run up the debt even more.
I think the government should go into the drug business and compete with Mexico. If ya can't beat 'em join 'em. Our government wants to run everything else. Let's face it they could sell cut rate drugs and put those cartels right out of business. Think of all those revenues. We'd pay off the 9 Trillion deficit lickety split. Every member of Congress could have their own GulfStream.
Now you know I am WHACKED! THANKS C-!
Now let me see...
We have Drug Cartels, Cancerous growths, a Flucked up Mortgage Industry, Michael Jackson, F Bombs, the perfect word, a few dummies with tudes, someone asking for a cookie, used playboys for sale, a crappy point-a-thon, an elephant that needs some Charmin and in the midst of all this there's an actual discussion about the topic of the post.
X...
You should be awarded extra points for having the most well rounded RainJacked post on AR. In my three years here, I ain't EVER seen the likes of this. The topic usually goes straight to hell as soon as the elephant taking a crap makes it's appearance :)
By the way...
Do people really buy used bum bum magazines? :)
TLW...ROAR!
TLW They certainly do as long as there are not too many stains on the pages.
Jeff,
Just read the post today. You offer some good arguments.
As for the language, of course, I've heard it before, but I wouldn't use it myself.
Brian
X...
I may not be able to award you extra points, but if you ask me nicely, I might be able to work something out. I know people. Wink :)
What I can do, without negotiating, is give this post my coveted stamp of approval:
For those of you who don't know any better, the RainJacked image is NOT up for grabs. It was a gift, designed for me by Hubba (Jeff Turner) don't even think about using it. It's mine, all mine :)
TLW...ROAR!
Lori, I think I may have mentioned sending the Club Chaos invitations out (LOL). I'm sure the coment is up there somewhere. ;-)
Sandy, I wish I did have a line on the crap points but alas... um... er... wait... maybe I do after all (LMAO). ;-)
Erica makes scary rules. A wink and a nod when hinting of the impending possible doom usually is enough to get me to hit the Chaos jack button. However, I do on occasion run amuck with my friends (LMAO). ;-)
Haaaaaa! Anna Banana too funny! ;-)
I second Candice. It's a very versatile adjective, eh? ;-)
Denise, I agree. One should not judge a book by its cover. :-)
Brian, it has been fun and we've only just begun (LOL). Stick around. :-)
LOL @ Renee. Change browsers and log back in. ;-)
Bonnie, I am Whacked and Jacked (LOL). You are very welcome, lovely. :-)
LOL @ TLW. People buy just about everything (LMAO). ;-)
Jeff - You ask who's the blame, the pusher or the user? Well, the answer is both, but the solution is to stop the flow from the top. I do believe that there are multiple sources for blame (and was happy to see you mention the user - an often avoided-in-blogging statement), but if you really want to stem the tide of "drugs," you need to get rid of the drugs. Curing the usage won't stop the attempts by the pusher to get someone new hooked. If it's available, someone will take it. That's human nature. Is that a problem? Yes. Is it curable? I'm not so sure.
Can't wait to see the other posts.
I luv this place...
Carol - It's the Club Chaos group that stirs the pot. I just said I was Whacked because that helps too.
Too funny! I looked up a phrase the contained the word F*cked and this blog popped up. You Realtors are really bored! Good luck in this F*ed up industry!
C Tann - I get a great smile on my face when I see an invitation from you in my in-box.
Renee - have you tried the ENTER key? Are you using Firefox?
Sherree and TLW - my husband has 35 years of Playboy, actually boxed in the black boxes with the bunny on them. He says he's saving them for the recipes. But, I think he's actually going to give the coveted FF issue to my Dad for his 75th birthday. But, the other 419 issues are for sale!
Oh, and Jeff -- nice post -- and the most well-rounded jacked post (awarded by TLW) to boot! AND, gold star baby!
Seems to be awful lot of crap flying around about this post. Well done Jeff!!!
And...
This comment is being made to make it 123 to 123 and going strong on both sides of the fence :)
Club Chaos...
Take it through the Rain Roof. We do not approve of passive aggression. Say what you mean, mean what you say or shut the hell up :)
TLW...ROAR!
@Joey: Speaking of bored, who googles "f*cked" when they are doing something productive unless you work in the porn industry and you are checking to see if your new video is indexing. Really. The pot is calling the kettle black here.
Hi Papa!!! ;-)
Bonnie, most of Club Chaos is in Jacked, Whacked, Diary of a Realtor... (LMAO). I love this place. :-D
Take it through the Rain Roof. We do not approve of passive aggression. Say what you mean, mean what you say or shut the hell up :)
I love my virtual Mama. Seriously!!! ;-)
C...
I'll leave with you my wayward child. It's time for me to take my meds. WidowMaker (Bob) won't let me Blog once I'm medicated. Can't imagine why :)
P.S. Give yourself a hug from me :)
TLW...ROAR!
Well in that case C- it amazes me how jacked people can get over F*cked. It's not like it's being shouted from the roof tops. Not my style to write that way, but certainly my style to let it fly now and then.
Websters says it's a word. Says it is usually vulgar. Does that mean unusually it is not vulgar? I did edit slightly to protect the verbal virgins.
intransitive verb 1 usually obscene : copulate
2 usually vulgar : mess 3 —used with withtransitive verb 1 usually obscene : to engage in coitus with —sometimes used interjectionally with an object (as a personal or reflexive pronoun) to express anger, contempt, or disgust
2 usually vulgar : to deal with unfairly or harshly : cheat, screw
Reflective pronoun... Hmm... Bonnie, I like that phrase (LOL). ;-)
Janet, thank you for the FLUFFY alert. I shall not be fluffy. Ever (LOL). ;-)
CTann sent me over, earlier today. This is a great post, regardless of you needing a bar of soap stuck in your mouth, lol.
I saw this problem coming YEARS ago (as I'm sure others did that have been around for quite some time). I remember bragging a few years ago, that I "hadn't had a buyer turned down for a mortgage in months". i questioned my favorite lender at the time, asking her when this would all explode. Now, here we are.
About 5 years ago I had a buyer that wanted to overspend. I had worked with them for quite some time and cared about their well being, as I do all of my clients. They finally settled on their dream home. Much to my dismay, it was overpriced and the most expensive home in the subdivision to ever sell. After all of their monthly bills were paid, they would only have $300 per month left. I sat them down and told them I thought they were making a huge mistake and to look at more affordable homes. They went home, thought about it and called me the next day to let me know they were FIRING ME as their agent. They told me I made them feel bad about their decision and they were moving forward with another agent that would sell them what they wanted. I was SO ANGRY. I learned from that experience that I can sleep at night, knowing I have morals and genuinely care about my clients. Too bad they didn't realize that :) Would I do the same thing again? You bet, and I have, more than I can remember.
As to who is at fault for the mortgage meltdown? The pushers that even allowed it to be an option in the first place. SHAME on them, and SHAME on agents that don't counsel their buyers and look after their best interest. Me, sleeping like a baby at night!
ERCG bless you because too many of my friends are barely keeping a roof over their heads. They brought when they thought things were still going up. Interest rates were crazy for a few of them too: 8.5%. 6.75%. Those adjustable rates are killing them. They can't sell now if they wanted to. They're upside down in their mortgages and it hurts like hell to watch them struggling to make ends meet.
OMG - the Fluffy alert has been sounded! Gotcha Janet - what a bad banana I've been and quite frankly will continue to be!! Ok so the conversation is still actually going on - hmmmmm - I must find something to bring to the party to break it up and re-direct that crap to another post.
I like the above word PUSHER Elisabeth - what could we create with that.
BTW - Elizabeth I like the way you handled those clients - it was the right thing to do to pencil it out with them and then let them make the choice - ( too bad they went south) I bet their upside down. We've got stories like this too.
Ok back to PUSHER......
CTann-It's SO sad, isn't it? I feel so sorry for people that are struggling. It's a heart breaker for sure! You know, it's the people that bought outside their affordability index to begin with that chaps my rear end. They need to be held accountable at some point, instead of us "bad guys".
On another note: How the heck are you? I've been SO darn busy. I"ve not had any time to spend here and I really miss it! I was in my Brokers class today and saw your email on my blackberry...couldn't wait to get home to see what I had missed, lol.
Aha! ERCG got a crackberry alert did she? Hmm... Good to know. I shall have to make it go off more often... (LOL). I know what you mean. I have been working really hard and getting major flack from the hubby. Dude had to take the wee ones to the beach without me again. Too many appointments, not enough time to play. I have to sneak playtime in... Bummer... ;-)
Banana: You are my kind of gal :)
CTANN: I have been swamped since spring...I am ready to drop. (not complainin', just sayin'. ) I've really missed my friends here and my family. I drag in late and night and fly out early each morning, 7 days a week. Maybe we'll both catch a break soon!
As for the crackberry...yep, I"m hooked! I was DYING to get here to see what you were stirring up, lol.
C: Sound like you need to take hubby and the wee ones to the beach! This has been fun!
Banana: You are my kind of gal :)
CTANN: I have been swamped since spring...I am ready to drop. (not complainin', just sayin'. ) I've really missed my friends here and my family. I drag in late and night and fly out early each morning, 7 days a week. Maybe we'll both catch a break soon!
As for the crackberry...yep, I"m hooked! I was DYING to get here to see what you were stirring up, lol.
Jeff: Did you ever think that you would get this kind of reaction from your post?
Sandy, I have made an appointment and will be at EEK's condo on Friday (LOL). My Windy Office awaits. Can't wait to park it on the terrace while the boys dance in the ocean. I may make it to the boardwalk, or even the sand. We shall see... Depends upon how fast I can get my blog posts done and Emelia's new printer up and running. We're having a Geek Meet at my gal pal's house. I love electronics... ;-)
ERCG, I have my fingers in a couple of cow pies tonight (LMAO). I'm glad we got to high-jack Jeff. I was feeling a bit deprived lately. I hate when work interferes with my blog schedule. ;-)
CTANN: Cow pies? THAT has to be exciting :) I hope you get some beach time in soon! As always, keep the invites coming! Maybe I"ll get to jump back on the wagon soon. Have a great week my friend!
What happened to Jeff? Where did he go?
What happened to Jeff? Where did he go?
Jeff... Why doesn't anyone point the finger of blame at the government for trying to push people that weren't ready into buying homes? Or for forcing banks into underwriting those loans...
ERGC, wishing you the very best in all things. Enjoy your week as well, lovely. I shall blog about the cow pies later (LOL). ;-)
Sandy, I'm sure he'll pop back in. I keep popping in and out myself. My wee people can be quite distracting. They refuse to stay in the bed. :-)
Lane, I think people have blamed just about everything imaginable. Even dead people... (LOL).
Hello are you listening hear folks - this is now about cowpies LMAO. Did you all meet our new member Carra Riley. she created a new group - for cosmic cowpie people - it's great - she is quite the gal - check her out :)
Sandy - Jeff is in the background loving every minute.....bad boys love this Sh** :) whoops I meant Stu**.
Elizabeth - back at cha! LIke wise .......
Gosh - I mean shucks - I haven't had a moment to think about the PUSHER thing - but I will.
C - really? they blamed dead people - which ones - how does that work - what the heck kind of club is that? I mean, just asking?
:)
Cosmic Cowpie People? Dang... I have sooo gotta check that out. Seriously! (LOL). ;-)
the early comments praised the post, and didn't even mention the choice of words...comments changed AFTER the complainant wrote their post critiquing your language...what does that say?
Pat, that says words influence. Good or bad, they influence. If you arrived here first, you answered based upon what was known: content. If you arrived here after reading a complaint, the probability arises that you read with a critical eye rather than a fresh eye. It slants and taints a work, even if you wind up thinking it's not so bad. You may never have had the theoretical thought to think it was bad to begin with if the seed wasn't planted. Just my two cents... I have a lot of experience with seed planters (LOL). ;-)
Maybe the word "screwed" would have been more benign? I don't know...I get your point.
@ Elizabeth - I was fired by a client too in a very similar situation. The guy worked for Washington Mutual. Wonder what happened to them. I never did work heavily with investors, so my mantra was, "30-year fixed". Or even better, 15. And yes, the mortgage industry is totally EFFED up, no better way to put it.
I am soo late to the party! But it was lots of fun!! Jeff, very provocative post. Everyone's to blame! The banks started it, the consumers fueled it, and now we're all paying for it.
Sharon
Hey Sandy...Not this type of attention :-D
Many of you have made me laugh harder today than recent memory allows me to recall...thank you :-)
@Lane- The government essentially allowed Wall Street (and banks) through various regulatory agencies to print money called Mortgage Backed Securities...Banks weren't forced to underwrite these loans, they very willing underwrote them to be quickly sold into this secondary market for a premium. They are smart enough to put enough distance between themselves and the direct action...
Whats interesting is, if someone (politician, authoritative public figure etc) were to have suggested pulling the reigns back in any way during the 'refi/housing boom', they would have been exiled from public view, committed to a 'hospital' or shot. It was a rabid market with a fever pitch...and everyone was pretty high.
Just now having the time to read the original blog ... and the blog written as a commentary to it ... and all the comments made as a result of both. I don't even know where to begin!!! Wow is all I can say ...
The above video was posted on the now infamous "Other Blog Post"...
I want it here for prosperity reasons. The video goes waaaay beyond funny. I should have swallowed my coffee before watching it :)
Disclosure: If you're offended by the FBomb...Please do not watch the video.
No one is forcing it on you. As Sardi would say "Click at your own risk" :)
TLW...ROAR!
Okay...
I just watched that again. That is just cracking me up :)
TLW...ROAR!
OMG! LMFAO TLW! That video is brilliant. I've got tears rolling down my face.
ROTFLMAO @ TLW. OMG - too funny!!! Haaaaaaaa! I have to change clothes. I just messed myself (LMAO). Dang Mama... ;-)
TLW has the last word! And it's not ...
Or is it?
F-bomb comment. LOL
so NOW I know where the word frichen comes from! There's NO place like home is there kids??
Not sure who sent me this but it's pretty funny......
C'mon Jeff... we both know that legislation like the Community Reinvestment Act held up a knife that forced banks to give loans that they knew were going to end up going bad. The government gave them a mechanism to screw other people worse than they were going to get it... But the government enabled and promoted it.
Then when things were fat, the banks were making money and they were ok... like a drug addict that is cool as long as the high lasts. Now they are trying to wean themselves off the drugs with different drugs... and the pusher government is standing there talking about how irresponsible they were for doing all of those bad things...
LMAO on this whole thing! Never been on a rainjacked post before. Oh and Jeff, Agree with you on the Mortgage Meltdown wherever you are now!
TLW- Brilliant! JEFF- Did you have any idea that this post woud create such a .... (I'd like to buy a vowel PAT...spinning the wheel..... "I" -OK I'll solve the puzzle... flicking firestorm? Sorry wrong answer...does this mean I lose my free spin? Afraid so.
CONTENT IS KING- and your rich content was WORTH THE READ- Dude < an augment to the elephant photo previusly posted.
Yes this post certainly has taken some unexpected twists and turns... Playboy, MJackson, a hysterical English class, elephant caregivers and now the true definition of Dude which was way back, was defined as the hair on an elephants bottom...... all because of a catchy title.
Good job.
Well now! I just read through the comments and I honestly can't remember what the f*ck this post was about!
Seriously, great post. I am not offended by the title, I am enlightened by the content and delighted by the comments.
TLW... the youtube was priceless!
Yeah... I particular had a good laugh with the hysterical english class... ;-)
Hi Susan! TLW's YouTube was priceless, eh? What has Mangigly the I-Talian been up to lately? I shall have to come for a visit. The wee oes are still on vacation and i have been dragging them everywhere. I need to post a few of our adventures (LOL). :-)
Morning Jeff. Yeah, Club Chaos is still lurking on your blog. How can we not? (LOL) ;-)
Whats interesting is, if someone (politician, authoritative public figure etc) were to have suggested pulling the reigns back in any way during the 'refi/housing boom', they would have been exiled from public view, committed to a 'hospital' or shot.
I agree
Whew, sometimes I'm glad I'm Canadian. Until I joined AR over a year ago I had never heard the term short sale. I think someone needs to do a count of how many short sale posts are in the AR library.
REALTORS and mortgage brokers like each other here. We do see some "power of sales" as opposed to foreclosures but not very many in my selling area.
And we have free healthcare. Or is that opening a new can of worms?
Yes, there is no doubt the greed in people who had no business buying what they bought has a huge chunk of blame in all of this. You can't sell me on the idea that these people didn't know what they were getting themselves into in regards to their financing. They knew, they just don't want to take them blame for it. Having said that, there is much blame on the mortgage broker side as well. They fed off each other. Greed feeds off of greed, and many a mortgage broker didn't even fully understand the products they were told to sell to the greedy Donald Trum wannabes.
Excelent post Jeff! The biggest drug out there was GREED.